Kevin's Watch

The creator is an interesting character that I don't get. He can't do anything to TC in the Land, but he can enter TC's world and talk to him and reassure him that TC will save the Land.

How come he can enter TC's world and help TC when there, but not help TC in the Land? Unless in TC's world there isn't an Arch of Time keeping the world together...

Ylva Kresh wrote:And I also fell back upon the old question of what exactly Lord Fouls Bane is... The illearth stone (one of many potential banes) seems so far more appropriate to be Drool Rockworms Bane, but I will keep an eye out for all possibilities...

I love SRD's answer to this, on his website:

He doesn't know what Lord Foul's bane is, Del Rey thought it was a title that would sell.

....There he is informed by a disembodied voice that he has been brought to that place as a champion for his world. He must fight to the death in single combat against a champion from another world. If he is defeated, he will die, and his world - the real world - will be destroyed because it lacks the inner strength to survive.

The man refuses to believe that what he is told is true. He asserts that he is either dreaming or hallucinating, and declines to be put in the false position of fighting to the death where no 'real' danger exists. He is implacable in his determination to disbelieve his apparent situation, and does not defend himself when he is attacked by the champion of the other world.

Question: is the man's behavior courageous or cowardly? This is the fundamental question of ethics.

Here's my take on this question...pay attention to it or not as you will, as this is my first post.

I think that in this case the fundamental question of ethics is whether or not a person's individual beliefs have a reality that can be justifiably held to despite the results of that belief. That is, are intentions or actions more important? Let's say that the man, by not defending himself, becomes responsible for the destruction of the entire world. The question is: can he be blamed for his actions? If not - if intentions are more important - then the man's actions are courageous, as he is holding to his convictions in spite of the threat to his entire world. On the other hand, if actions are more important, than the man is a coward and can be blamed for the destruction of his entire race. Is it worse to sacrifice one's ethics or to destroy a world? This certainly sounds like a fundamental question to me.

..

Even SRD doesn't know what Lord Foul's Bane is.....

dlbpharmd wrote:Even SRD doesn't know what Lord Foul's Bane is.....

Yes, wasn't that interesting? A change imposed by Del Rey because he thought it would sell better.

However, I submit that the change from Lord Foul's Servant to Lord Foul's Bane settles the question of what Lord Foul's bane is. The bane is the servant is Covenant. Covenant is the bane of Foul. As indeed he turned out to be.

The original title was Lord Foul's Ritual, not Lord Foul's Servant, I thought...

Ah, yes, I see that in a Feb 25 answer. Well, there goes that syllogism.

Though I believe you are right to say that Covenant is Lord Foul's Bane (as in the bane of Lord Foul, not the bane belonging to Lord Foul).

It's the Stone...

No, the focus on the Stone is in the next book.

well, he covets the Stone in this one. Using Drool as his "servant" to retrieve it.

*runs over to the TC Forum to bump the thread about what Lord Foul's Bane is...*

Not picking up the challenge. I've already said what I had to say.

Chicken

LOL. Just not into is-isn't-is.

Dragonlily

Danlo, you got me thinking about Covenant's background as a bestselling writer. You ask several times what does 'night-ridden people could mean and I hope I can give a good answer here.

Here's the description of his writing:

It was the pure act of creation which ignited his imagination; and the warm spell of her pride and eagerness kept him burning like a bolt of lightning, not for second or fractions of seconds, but for five months in one long wild discharge of energy that seemed to create the landscapes of the earth out of nothingness by the sheer force of its brilliance - hills and crags, trees bent by the passionate wind, night-ridden people, all rendered into being by that white bolt striking into the heavens from the lightning rod of his writing.

The white magic / creative powers connection was something I never noticed before. His inspiration is fueled by Joan's pride and eagerness. The power of their love. His writing seem to reflect what he feels. But after Covenant gets sick and his wife leaves him he turns his back on it and calls it worthless trash. Its not just a faze induced by his bitterness at that time. He will continue to believe this for the rest of his life and his friend the doctor will share his opinion. What his novels lack is darkness, perdition and perseverance in the face of despite. There is passion but there is no night. The people of his novel(s) are night-ridden.

Like his marriage, they are never tested, their passion is shallow and without aim. The only opposition present for them is vagrant and mindless as the wind. It gives little meaning to their struggles. But of course people will prefer this false phantasm to books like TCTC.

If we want to connect his writing to the Land, what he wrote wouldn't have been LFB and the rest of the books but what the Creation would have been if the Despiser hadn't intervened. Donaldson seems to say that despite all the horrors and misery that Lord Foul caused, the people of the Land would have been less and not more without his interference. All the great heroes of the Land are inspired to be greater than themselves by their despair. The discovery and dedication to Earthpower by Berek, the oath of peace, all came into being because of the suffering they endured.

Wow shadowbinding shoe! I never looked at it that way before-I always thought they were ridden with night not bereft of night. That makes perfect sense! TC was a great writer but he couldn't formulate the dark side of his characters! Foul must have read his book and said, "Dark side? I'll show you the darkside fool!"

I'm bumping this thread because I just finished LFB again and I think this thread is great (although slightly derailed at times... )

Lord Mhoram wrote:I believe the Creator IS all knowing all seeing. What he sees he cant act upon. He DID choose Covenant, and he obviously influenced Drools unconscious "decision".
LF and the Creator...the same? Wha? Am I just dumb...'cause I dont understand.

I am just getting into reading these threads and have begun with Chapters 1 & 2 of LFB. So sure Drool reached out to bring him to the Land but Drool was not all powerful and most likely was only reaching out per LF influence, but the creator, while not having the abiluity to "Act" most likely becuaae of potential negative influence upon the Arch of Time if he/she does CAN influence the choice of who is drawn back and into the Land. As far as why TC is Unbliever. He has to be to avoid going mad. Since his whole life is now defined by leprosy and the thought of any kind of belief that he could get better would only lead to both his physical and mental destruction, to believe in having power and "relief" in the land would mean the fruition of his destruction in "real life". If he succumbs to the seduction of the Land he is truly going to die in the real world. Therefore, to protect himself he cooses to not let himself feel powerful and to believe all he is experiencing is a dream. That and the overwhelming onslaught of hurtloam led to his rape of Lena. At first he figures it is a dream so he can do what he wants but then realizes there is more to this than appears so he becomes torn by whether to believe of not and decides it is in his own best interest to not believe

Welcome to the Land 'Wingman'!!!

Some really good insights and you are correct. TC needed to disbelieve. He was so scared that if he went down the path of "I can get better', even in a dream, that he would lose the focus that is so essential to his life in the real world.

On the other part. It is interesting that the Creator and LF seems to have chosen TC to come to the land. Perhaps because he alone, due to his circumstances, (for the Creator and for LF) was most likely to do what the other wanted and easily it could go either way.