Kevin's Watch

One of my favorite Pink Floyd songs is "Sorrow", the masterpiece that closes A Momentary Lapse of Reason. It's become a staple of David Gilmour's live shows, and it's truly a great song.

It's also, unfortunately, ripped off.

According to Wikipedia.....

Drummer Nick Mason has since stated that the song was almost entirely written by David Gilmour alone over the space of one weekend on his houseboat Astoria. When he returned from the weekend, only "some spit and polish", according to Mason, was needed.

Apparently Gilmour was watching TV, and caught Richard Pryor: Here and Now, as "Sorrow's" music is a literal carbon copy (right down to the keyboard flourishes and bass) of the movie's theme.

It starts at 4 minutes in.


And here's "Sorrow".

Wow, that's pretty blatant. Sounds just like it.

It seems pretty different to me. But what the hell do I know.

Sounds eighties, aside from that, I do not know. I'll have to get my more musically inclined friends to check it out. Hope it's not "plagiarized", unknowingly or not... that would be unfortunate.

Similar but defiitely not the same. I don't see (well, hear) a copy here.

[sidebar] Came across this, which was all news to me:

Wikipedia wrote:Echoes (Pink Floyd song)

Alleged plagiarism
In interviews promoting Amused to Death, Waters claimed that Andrew Lloyd Webber had plagiarized the refrain ("riff") from Echoes for sections of the musical The Phantom of the Opera; nevertheless, he decided not to file a lawsuit regarding the matter. He said:

• Yeah, the beginning of that bloody Phantom song is from Echoes. *DAAAA-da-da-da-da-da*. I couldn't believe it when I heard it. It's the same time signature—-it's 12/8—-and it's the same structure and it's the same notes and it's the same everything. Bastard. It probably is actionable. It really is! But I think that life's too long to bother with suing Andrew fucking Lloyd Webber.

You can listen for your self in this side-by-side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S3fpgrZ9ys

AND This explains some lyrics found in Amused To Death that I had always wondered about:

• We cower in our shelters
  With our hands over our ears
  Lloyd-Webber's awful stuff
  Runs for years and years and years
  An earthquake hits the theatre
  But the operetta lingers
  Then the piano lids comes down
  And break his fucking fingers
  It's a miracle

Not a man to let bygones be.

Nah, it doesn't sound THAT much alike to me.
Some similarities, but not rip-off kinds or level.

This kind of thing happens...a lot...and much of it is simply due to the limitations of music itself [well, the structural/sonic choices we seem to like, as a mass] and what the current sonic fashion is like.

Perhaps interesting to note:
I'm slightly more sure than not that there is a book that exists...a guy wrote out every possible melodic/rhythmic combination that can exist in western music keys/modes. [may or may not have included blues variations, my impression is fuzzy---but that would only add a few chapters/options].

And another: there is a short film/reel from back in the day. It has an actor/musician as the "main character"...kinda jazz/musical guy, 30's or 40's-ish-era? Definitely black and white...[It MIGHT be Dick Powell, but I don't promise at all]
Anyway, he's in some heaven/afterlife/transcend place, with a bunch of dead famous composers. 'Splainin music to them.
Some piece is played, someones like "Total rip off of so and so"...and he
says "Oh really?" Then proceeds to demonstrate the exact same progression/melody/variation used by...I don't know...I think about 7 or 10 of the most famous composers of all time.

EDITED: to finish a sentence I forgot to finish cuz my phone rang.

It's the exact same bass line and rhythm chords. It's a blatant copy.

I'm on record here as being a HUGE David Gilmour fan, but "Sorrow" and this are the same piece of music.

Speaking of Gilmour, I was all about seeing him live next year. Then, I learned that he's only appearing in 4 cities in the U.S., all long distances for me, and the shows are already sold out. So much for that.

Cail wrote:It's the exact same bass line and rhythm chords. It's a blatant copy.

I'm on record here as being a HUGE David Gilmour fan, but "Sorrow" and this are the same piece of music.

To tell the truth, this is the main reason why I'm not just brushing this off.

The "good" news is that my music friend is also a HUGE David Gilmour fan... so we'll have confirmation or he'll tell me a comforting lie I so desperately want to believe....(there's the third option, but for the sake of humour we will ignore it!)

Orlion wrote: The "good" news is that my music friend is also a HUGE David Gilmour fan..

Me too...I'm almost positive I'm on record for it around here.
I hear similarity in the chord progression and rhythm/roots. But if that's what ripping off is---there are at least hundreds, and probably a lot more, of songs built on those blocks. I don't mean generally, I mean these exact blocks.
Limits, genre, fashions, influence. It happens.
You know you can take "What I like About you" [think that's the title, Romantics and Mellencamp "R O C K in the U S A"...play either one...you can sing most of the other one over the top of it.
Much of the basics in U2 "Bullet the Blue Sky" and the Cure "Fascination Street"

There's a reason someone can jump on stage with the house band and say "Blues in X"...and it will work. And you can tell who is different/creative and who isn't even when 99% of it is the same.
[[and I pick blues on purpose cuz without blues there is no Floyd, or G.]]

But...maybe it's partly a difference in ears.
I hear some similarities...but I don't hear a sameness/identity...
I hear two people who might have started with the same hemp, the same knots in the same place...but one is making a net and one is making a noose.
There IS a rip off here [or self tribute...or expansion/reinterpretation of a good damn idea.]. The distorted guitar in Sorrow intro...hear the similarities with "Wish You Were Here" intro section?