Kevin's Watch

I've been seeing a lot of people bumping the idea of a Chronicles TV series in recent postings and articles.

The latest one is more significant than usual.

TheMotleyFool wrote:Would Classic Titles Like "Thomas Covenant" Work on Netflix or Amazon Prime?

Recently, I took a close look at the popular Wheel of Time series, arguing that it might find new life as an Amazon Prime franchise. Today, I think I found a better fit for Netflix: The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. [link]

The article does a fairly serious job of discussing Chronicles movie attempts in the past, and why it would be ideal for NetFlix right now.

I will post more nods and bumps as I find them. For example:

theGuardian wrote:What is cruelly clear is that the makers of GoT have a vicious task ahead – as George RR Martin sweats to finish his latest – in remaining true to the spirit of the books, keeping hold of cast members as they get exponentially more famous, and continuing to make the most thunderously visceral global TV phenomenon yet encountered. I suspect a stunningly elegant fist will be made of whatever develops. But after such successes from Tolkien, and Martin, might I just suggest someone read Stephen R Donaldson? [link]

Possibly where the Lord of the Rings effect failed to achieve lift-off, the Game of Thrones effect might succeed.

I still say HBO should do the Gap. Most other channels and such would be too squeamish to do it justice.

That sounds like a pretty good idea.

--A

wayfriend wrote:

TheMotleyFool wrote:Would Classic Titles Like "Thomas Covenant" Work on Netflix or Amazon Prime?

That was an interesting one. Guy thinks it's 3 trilogies though.

(Damn, a series would rock for the Watch... )

--A

I kinda think he's wrong though. GOT succeeds because it's soap opera with tits and swords. I think fantasy plays into it for exotic scenery and dragons. But there's nothing about it that suggests an LOTR-type quest story.

Hmmm, it's possible I suppose that the viewership for it just isn't there...it would be nice grounds for a bit of a resurgence though.

--A

Don't get me wrong, I'm psyched that the Chronicles are under consideration. They keep coming up as potential adaptation-fodder, and that's significant.

I just don't think it's similar to Game of Thrones in any way that's significant to producers.

What it is similar to is a Marvel/DC comic book adaptation, in that it's about a guy who gets super powers but whose emotional issues get in the way of being a hero.

It's also similar to LOTR in that it's about an all out war between good and evil that can be settled by one guy. But the Chronicles of Narnia and the Golden Compass are too recently failed, and this has to give them pause.

I'm horrified about the changes that will be made for a Thomas Covenant movie.

Hollywood would kill it.
All first 6 books would be combined into one story spread out over 3 movies (if that)
Joan and Roger would be written out.
Linden would be the love interest from the beginning.
Jeremiah would be Linden's son with another man and this man would take the place of Roger.

HBO though......might do it right and keep all the elements.

I'd like to see the guy who made Kung Fury do it.
It would be awesome and probably true to the story too.

Are you ever going to forgive Peter Jackson for leaving out Tom Bombadil?(:))

But you bring up a good point: I called this thread Movie bumps. And it's really Series that are being mentioned. I should fix that.

wayfriend wrote:I kinda think he's wrong though. GOT succeeds because it's soap opera with tits and swords. I think fantasy plays into it for exotic scenery and dragons. But there's nothing about it that suggests an LOTR-type quest story.

So...you're saying that a TC HBO series would have more of a chance if Linden showed off the girls every once in a while?

-jay

kevinswatch wrote:So...you're saying that a TC HBO series would have more of a chance if Linden showed off the girls every once in a while?

I wouldn't get your hopes up for a Walk of Shame, if that's what you're thinking.

No shame need be involved. Think more of how organically such scenes are handled in Outlander. If I may be slightly crude in my wordplay, "tits are not just for titillation", although I'll admit to not objecting to unclad characters even when it does not directly move the story forward.

Remember, SRD himself celebrated Linden's physical attributes with references like the one to "gratuitous womanly curves" in his early descriptive passages about her in TWL.

As for the discussion upthread about whether the Gap would be a more suitable adaptation, I agree with that. The story is not as dependent on internal dialog (difficult to adapt into an acting paradigm), is substantially different than any existing film or TV production, and is plotted like a demonic roller coaster.

I have no hopes for this. I can't imagine a way that the Chronicles would ever translate to the screen.

Outlander was pretty good. Haven't read the books though.

wayfriend wrote:Are you ever going to forgive Peter Jackson for leaving out Tom Bombadil?

Haha, as far as I'm concerned, that was one of the things he got right. The only part of that interlude I wished hadn't been cut was them getting the swords from the barrow.

--A

I can see it more and more possible. I'm only in season 2 of Game of Thrones (never read the books), but the subject matter that seemed so verboten in the day isn't nearly so. Still, though...one of the hardest pills to swallow happens at the beginning, and if the audience will come along for the journey after the rape of Lena, then it could be a success. Seems like the majority of people who read the books either stop there or become big fans.
I do hope that by the time someone makes these books into a movie or tv series that the themes that were so powerful once upon a time are not dulled by other material. Kinda like partially what made the Watchmen movie so much less of an event. In that case, most fans of the comic had their nitpicks and generally hated it, and the rest of us who hadn't read it felt like it hit pretty soft as a lot of other movies had stolen from it over the years. I suspect the same of the Covenant films. Already George RR Martin takes out characters with a ruthless abandon, which is what often made Covenant so damn shocking.

Avatar wrote:Outlander was pretty good. Haven't read the books though.

wayfriend wrote:Are you ever going to forgive Peter Jackson for leaving out Tom Bombadil?

Haha, as far as I'm concerned, that was one of the things he got right. The only part of that interlude I wished hadn't been cut was them getting the swords from the barrow.

--A

I can't even get through the 2nd movie because of all the horrible changes. Only bits and pieces.
I try but it's too.....horrible for me.

The Hobbit stayed true enough for me to enjoy it.
Although there were several cut the crap moments.....
(if Legolas had enough arrows he could have killed every orc in ME)

Cagliostro wrote:Still, though...one of the hardest pills to swallow happens at the beginning, and if the audience will come along for the journey after the rape of Lena, then it could be a success.

I've been thinking about that ... it's not just rape, it's rape of an underage girl to boot. Possibly, if it's off screen ... and if Lena is changed to be well over the age of consent ... it could work and it wouldn't screw up the story. Lena just needs to be a dreamy moonpie who stayed uninvolved with men because she dreamed of Revelstone and wouldn't settle for cattleherds. However, the age thing would have to be changed IMO.

High Lord Tolkien wrote: The Hobbit stayed true enough for me to enjoy it.

I think the Hobbit was way more off than LotR. At least they mostly only cut stuff there...the Hobbit they made up totally new stuff...

--A

wayfriend wrote:

Cagliostro wrote:Still, though...one of the hardest pills to swallow happens at the beginning, and if the audience will come along for the journey after the rape of Lena, then it could be a success.

I've been thinking about that ... it's not just rape, it's rape of an underage girl to boot. Possibly, if it's off screen ... and if Lena is changed to be well over the age of consent ... it could work and it wouldn't screw up the story. Lena just needs to be a dreamy moonpie who stayed uninvolved with men because she dreamed of Revelstone and wouldn't settle for cattleherds. However, the age thing would have to be changed IMO.

I don't think Lena's implied rape would be as bad -- remember 12 year old Jody Foster in Taxi Driver as a prostitute? That was in the 70's.

Personally, Id love to see the first chrons trilogy as a Netflix Series - 1 season per book for 3 seasons total. I think that it might have a chance to translate and the second trilogy could be seasons 4-6 if the first couple went well. I wold of course want as faithful a reproduction as possible.

also personally, I don't think the last chronicles should be done at all. I have re-read the first 6 books possibly 8 times, reread final chrons twice and FInal Dark once, which was enough.

As much as a Covenant series could piggyback off the success of Game of Thrones, I think it could equally be marketed along the lines of Breaking Bad/Sopranos etc wherein the protagonist is a person of dubious character and complex morals.

As always when pondering translating Covenant, the early-story rape scene is a huge stumbling block, and if the US is anything like the current climate in Australia then it would have to be handled with extreeeeme care.
Already I can hear the outraged protests over Rape being used as a device for the instigation of change in the protagonist/rapist; it's a really tough sell at this time (and possibly forever).

Wayfriend mentioned earlier in the thread the possibility of aging up Lena past the age of consent; that's an absolute given I'd think, there's no reason for her to be so young.
And I also agree that the scene must be almost wholly implied; Covenant's crime can be made quite explicit enough without actually being depicted.

If handled by people who understood the material then I have little doubt a series of TCoTC could be done to quite a satisfactory level.

I realise Donaldson's Covenant books are quite a bit more internally and existentially focused than Martin's Game of Thrones saga (of which I've read quite a bit; having a break at the moment though!), but a good story is a good story, and the first Chronicles, given plenty of consideration, would translate really well to small screen in episodic form.

Casting would be absolutely key; I know it's fun to play the ol' 'who'd play Covenant/Linden/Mhoram?' game, but it would nearly make or break the series imo; the *right* Covenant could absolutely sell the series in a way that Bryan Cranston or James Gandolfino did with their career-defining characters.

Securing and working with the kind of budget that would allow effective production values, i.e. costumes, sets, special effects, would obviously be an important element in setting expectations for such an endeavour; if there's not enough money it could end up looking more Dr Who than Game of Thrones - which, to me, would be fine as long as the essence of the story was conveyed well.