The Art Thread

Post by **peter** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:37 pm

Are there any art lovers out there, or even artists [or budding ones] that would like to talk about art with me.

I just saw a program on the Koons retrospective currently touring Europe, and having done it's US stint. The program gave a good showing of his work right from the early works through 'Banal', 'Made in Heaven' and finishing with the later works of 'Celebrations' and 'Popeye'. I asked my wife what she thought of Koons' work and she thought. "I dont really see the peices as 'art'", she said, "more like just, well, objects that I like to look at or don't." This struck me; it's like a total reversal of the 'ready-made' ideas of Duchamp of peices produced painstakingly laboriously as art, but being converted in the eye of the beholder back into objects of the mundane. It plays also into the idea of 'the beholders share' - the idea that the completing work on the peice of art is actually carried out - and is the responsibility of to do well or badly - the viewer. As Damien Hurst said in the program, it's not the artist whose responsible for the work, it's up to the beholder to do his/her share too.

At present my favorite piece of work is 'Suprised' by Henri Rousseau. I've seen the work many times in the National Gallery in London and it never fails to get me with it's vibrancy and 'instant flash of color and action' look. I can rest my eyes on it and feel myself being drawn in and relaxing simultaneously. Rousseau did a number of jungle related scenes but this is my favorite work of his, and at present seems to be all I want to look at.
As works to go and see in museums, the best I've seen to date are the Impressionist works of the Musee D'Orsay Paris which seem to glow with an impossible inner light and the Pre-Raphaelite works [especially Millais' Ophelia] in the Tate London, which are so richly painted as to be positively tactile in appearence.

What do you you like; tell me? [I'm in need of beauty at the moment; the world seems too dark.]

Post by **Avatar** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:32 am

My preference is for surrealism.

--A

Post by **peter** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:25 am

By and large the only lobster I want to see is on the plate in front of me - but yes, surrealism has its moments. Dali tends to monopolise the style and in some opinions he sold out to blatant commercialism, but hell - on a good day he was good! I've not seen much in the flesh, but it's color and playfulness indicates it would make good viewing.

Post by **JIkj fjds j** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:47 am

The Mystery of Picasso, Henri-Georges Clouzot's 1956 film is worth a watch.
The camera gets set up behind the canvas so as to see paintings develop in real time.
But don't ask me what the mystery was, and I won't tell you any lies.

Post by **peter** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:38 am

I've seen clips of the film in documentaries etc, but never the whole thing. In trying to do a search of where to see it online I found out on the Wiki entry that he had actually done a film of the same kind ten years earlier directed by a Belgian director . Piccasso is an artist that does it for me in fits and starts. His genius is beyond question and his influence on the twentieth century [well beyond the frontiers of painting] undeniable - but do I 'like' his work; a case of not having seen enough and actually looked at it enough I think, to make a decision [nearly said 'judgement' there but ye Gods, at what point am I qualified to 'judge' Piccasso ].

[edit: Interesting. Just went and had a really fast scan through Picasso's works and while the cubist works have undeniable impact, it is the less overtly or non-cubist pictures that on brainstormong his oeuvre, jump out as ones that I'd like to hang on my wall and look at. Shame we don't get to see more of these.]

[further edit; Happened upon the Piccasso painting Deux Femmes Courant sur la Plage (La Course) in a book last night. This work from 1922 was a great inspiration for Henry Moore - and the form of his sculpture is readily visible in the work. I can see also reflections of the piece in the work of Beryl Cook, a lady who hails from my part of the world and whose joyfully incorrect ladies and gentlemen have become almost iconic in the UK if nowhere else.]

Post by **Linna Heartbooger** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:06 pm

peter! thank you for bringing up this subject!

I as reading somewhere else that art is one way that people don't really think about as a means to LOVE OTHERS.
But beware: That author talks a lot about living out ones whole life as a calling from God.

My mind has been churning away at what things drive people do PRODUCE art... and I'm really noticing things I didn't before...

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:49 pm

Linna Heartlistener wrote:My mind has been churning away at what things drive people do PRODUCE art... and I'm really noticing things I didn't before...

I would assume it's an inner drive, a need to express, rather than something outside of the artist.

Post by **Linna Heartbooger** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:30 am

I guess I was thinking about sort of like... situations where someone is trying to express something they see in the outside world...

...things that lots of other people just don't because they don't share that person's experiences.

Post by **peter** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:55 am

I think the desire to create is hardwired into most if not all of us. I've spoken with Linna about this before, but I spend my time on the Watch almost because I am 'driven' to write. Not great works, lengthy tomes or stories to grip and hold peoples attention [though gosh knows I would if I could] - but just simply to write, to communicate all of the buzzing and flitting ideas that continuously pop into my head. I can't imagine not doing it. The Watch provides an almost perfect forum [in the broader sense] to unload at my level of creativity. I imagine the creators of great works are the same, but just more so. The other thing is that [as Oscar Wild said], people put their 'genius' into creating their life - which are personalised works of art in every case. They create their relationships, their homes - they express their inner-selves in the exterior constuctions of their lives and their 'art' is there for all to see if we could but recognise it as sutch.

Post by **Vraith** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:31 pm

that's pretty good, peter. I started to say that some of that would appear to be more about controlling the environment they are in---but isn't control a large part of creating, one way or another? Always at least two frames/strictures/controls operating...the at least partly external ones imposed by the medium, and the at least partly self-imposed/chosen ones by the creator to say what they mean [why emerald here, instead of forest, why C instead of Bb, why pulse instead of beat?].
Which brings me to Linna...yea, there is a lot in the difference between what/how the artist "sees," what they're trying to show about the thing.
But there is also the opposite---what the creator "sees" that is NOT in the world, and damn well SHOULD be.
A good creator of portraits will give you a likeness of the subject. A talented one will reveal things about how they really are that slip by ordinary notice, a Master will show you what that person COULD be/become, if only...

Post by **peter** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:13 am

Absolutely V. Reading the subtle hints in portraits that even (or especially) the sitters weren't aware of is an art in itself!

I want to do a DVD (for my own use and for meditative purposes) where 10 or so works of art are paired to ten pieces of classical music (or pieces of music that approach the sublime), each pairing on screen for five to ten minutes. I could just choose my ten favourite paintings and randomly pair them to my ten favourite pieces of music - but it does seem that for the couplings to work their magic of clearing the mind of other extraneous thoughts there should at least be some correlation between the spirit of the visual and auditory sensations. This is where it gets harder. Any suggestions of pairings with this potential would be appreciated.

Post by **Avatar** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:26 am

You seen this? Samsara - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsara_%282011_film%29

--A

Post by **peter** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:59 am

Excellent Av! Just what I'm after. I'll track it down on eBay or Amazon. Many thanks.

Post by **Linna Heartbooger** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:09 am

Vraith wrote:Which brings me to Linna...yea, there is a lot in the difference between what/how the artist "sees," what they're trying to show about the thing.
But there is also the opposite---what the creator "sees" that is NOT in the world, and damn well SHOULD be.I've had people convince me of some of this at times...
Would, like, a flash mob meeting to play the Ode to Joy in this square in a city in Spain be an example of something that on a simple level ...didn't exist... until they made it happen... but dang well shoulda?

Or even, on another scale, that beautiful YouTube video of said flashmob, with all its great camera angles and all the views of people's faces as they respond to the music.. it would be impossible for a single person to actually see all that, so in a sense that view of the world is something that doesn't exist.

Vraith wrote:...a Master will show you what that person COULD be/become, if only...
Okay, for that I'm asking you if you've ever heard "The Touch of the Master's Hand".

Post by **Vraith** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:45 pm

Linna Heartlistener wrote:Okay, for that I'm asking you if you've ever heard "The Touch of the Master's Hand".

I had not. But that is sure part of what I was saying.
I've seen that flashmob, yep, that's in there too.

Things at the surface, things in depth, and sight of things full potential.
And they don't all of them have to be big, historical, worldwide---
Sometimes---from some perspectives---a perfect note for a single instant is the equal of a perfect song.
[[and the same could well be true for fractured note---

Post by **Avatar** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:31 am

peter wrote:Excellent Av! Just what I'm after. I'll track it down on eBay or Amazon. Many thanks.

There are two others, Chronos (1985) and Baraka (1992). They're both just less developed variations on the same theme though (even some of the same footage), and Samsara is the best of them.

--A

Post by **peter** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:05 am

Been checking it out Av. Yes Samsara would appear to be the one to go for. Alas, it's not that easy to locate. There are masses of blu-ray copies - but I need ordinary DVD. I can find these, but they don't specify the region code and when one did it turned out to be region 1 - ie the USA format rather than that for european DVD players. Sitting here typing however, I have an idea - I wonder if the film is on Netflix; I have a sneaking suspicion it might be, and if so I'm a winner all round [because I get mine for free!

].

Post by **Linna Heartbooger** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:36 am

Linna Heartlistener wrote:Okay, for that I'm asking you if you've ever heard "The Touch of the Master's Hand".

Oh... also... it was supposed to be a "battered and scarred" violin - not a "battered and scared" violin!

Lyrics website fail... bah.

I think you might find this story of creative interaction between artists over long time spans kind of cool.
He says: "no one creates in isolation; every creative act is influenced by others."
(peter, I bet you'd find that story cool, too.)

[[and the same could well be true for fractured note---
Hah!

Post by **peter** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:28 am

Will read it tonight at bedtime Linna and share my thoughts in due course.

Post by **Linna Heartbooger** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:16 pm

Cool.

take it easy!

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The Art Thread

The Art Thread