Kevin's Watch

Would you read the Chronicles of Linden Avery if it meant you could return to the Land one more time?

Back before the Last Chronicles were announced, I knew that if SRD ever returned to the series with a "Chronicles of Linden Avery," I would read it, just to go back to the Land.

I thought we already did.

Zarathustra wrote:I thought we already did.

Heh. We did.

The poll question invites the further question of how Linden Avery would have fared in the Land had she been the first person from the "real" world to be translated to the Land, without Covenant as her mentor, without the prior history of the Land in which Covenant had become a pivotal figure, with (presumably) both Lord Foul and the Creator discerning that she had it within her to either damn or save the Land and gambling that in the end her choices would conduce to one or other of their respective agendas, and with the central theme of the story being how Linden deals with her personal issues/damage in the context of a time of crisis in the Land and of her role and actions in that situation.

Would she have been an Unbeliever?

DrPaul wrote: (presumably) both Lord Foul and the Creator discerning that she had it within her to either damn or save the Land and gambling that in the end her choices would conduce to one or other of their respective agendas, and with the central theme of the story being how Linden deals with her personal issues/damage in the context of a time of crisis in the Land and of her role and actions in that situation.

A sad day indeed for Kevinswatch Dr.Paul, when Lord Foul is put on equal footing with The Creator. I haven't read The Last Dark but from what I've picked up here and there on the "absorbtion" of Lord Foul into the White Gold Magic I really have to wonder if there is anybody out there who truly "believes" in the Land of SRD. 40yrs of storytelling and y'all (presumably) still can't grasp the elementary details of the white gold ring.

DrPaul wrote:
Would she have been an Unbeliever?

No question in my mind that had Linden been the protagonist in the first volume the Land would have certainly been destroyed by Foul. Covenant was uniquely qualified to deal with the impossibility of the Land given his Leper training and disciplines. Linden would have been seduced by the Land as Hile Troy was or her dark side would have been brought to the surface by Foul and she would have become a tool for his use.

IMHO of course.

+JMJ+

Rune wrote:A sad day indeed for Kevinswatch Dr.Paul, when Lord Foul is put on equal footing with The Creator. I haven't read The Last Dark but from what I've picked up here and there on the "absorbtion" of Lord Foul into the White Gold Magic I really have to wonder if there is anybody out there who truly "believes" in the Land of SRD. 40yrs of storytelling and y'all (presumably) still can't grasp the elementary details of the white gold ring.

Though I'm not precisely sure where you're going with this, please elaborate. I, also, have read a number of interpretations on KW that chafe against the spirit that SRD seems to be channeling.

Wosbald wrote:+JMJ+

Though I'm not precisely sure where you're going with this, please elaborate.

I not going anywhere with it, Wosbald. It's a criticism. Take it or leave it, matey.

As for an elaboration - no. It's written in plain English.
Besides, were you really interested then why not reply to other posts I've made in the Chronicles Forum on for example, misinterpretation of Kevin's Wards, or the idea that the Fire-Lions are also the Seareach Giants, or Trell's role in unlocking Vilesilencer ancient history, or any other of the numerous and exciting suggestions all of which seem to generate nothing but the sound of "crickets" and "tumbleweeds"
Failing that, maybe you should elaborate on your question.

What I will say, is that making criticisms on KW has been a fun part of my homework assignment from Mark Ch.3 Bible class.

+JMJ+

Rune wrote:

Wosbald wrote:
Though I'm not precisely sure where you're going with this, please elaborate.

I not going anywhere with it, Wosbald. It's a criticism. Take it or leave it, matey.

As for an elaboration - no. It's written in plain English.
Besides, were you really interested then why not reply to other posts I've made in the Chronicles Forum on for example, misinterpretation of Kevin's Wards, or the idea that the Fire-Lions are also the Seareach Giants, or Trell's role in unlocking Vilesilencer ancient history, or any other of the numerous and exciting suggestions all of which seem to generate nothing but the sound of "crickets" and "tumbleweeds"
Failing that, maybe you should elaborate on your question.

What I will say, is that making criticisms on KW has been a fun part of my homework assignment from Mark Ch.3 Bible class.

No prob, yo. That's why I'd said "please". If you don't feel like sharing, s'cool.

Wosbald wrote:+JMJ+

No prob, yo. That's why I'd said "please". If you don't feel like sharing, s'cool.

I didn't understand your question, is all.

DrPaul wrote:The poll question invites the further question of how Linden Avery would have fared in the Land had she been the first person from the "real" world to be translated to the Land ...

If that had happened, it would not have turned out well. But, then again, that could never happen.

Part of the premise (or conceit, even) of the first Chronicles is that Covenant visits the Land because he needs it. Maybe it's real, maybe it's a dream created for his benefit - it doesn't matter.

In the Second Chronicles, he still needs the Land. But Linden, also, needs the Land. Which leaves us with an important question - why do they both need the same Land? And if it's a dream, how can they be sharing the same dream? Only a "real" Land seems to be plausible.

But Donaldson tells us:

In INTERVIEW: October 1991, Stephen R Donaldson wrote:Covenant can't save The Land alone in The Second Chronicles , and neither can Linden Avery. It takes what they can both give, and what they can both give up, to save The Land. [link]

What this means is that Covenant needs the Land and Linden. Linden needs the Land and Covenant. The Land needs Covenant and Linden. This is how they end up having the same "dream" - they were gifted with a place that heals them both, but only if they are healed together.

In this light, it doesn't even make sense to consider Linden being the protagonist in the first Chronicles. The Land - alone - isn't what she needs. If somehow that came about, then Linden (as she was drawn) could not be healed, and therefore could not save the Land - which leaves only damning it.

wayfriend wrote:... an important question - why do they both need the same Land? And if it's a dream, how can they be sharing the same dream? Only a "real" Land seems to be plausible.

The Land isn't a real place. This is fundamental to the fantasy genre. It has to remain a dream or else it would undo everything Stephen Donaldson has achieved, (and what could yet be achieved).
Consider the purpose of the The Land - a place where the reader can confront the possibility of a world without Despite. A place that can challenge the imagination into action, to overcome the barriers we all have to face in our daily lives. Without The Land as the dreamworld our real world would be left untouched and unaffected by both the stories and the lives of the characters therein.
When all's said and done it's the real world where we live, that I believe, is enriched and made healthier a place for a dream that is The Land.

Rune wrote:When all's said and done it's the real world where we live, that I believe, is enriched and made healthier a place for a dream that is The Land.

Gosh, I've always wanted to think so!
Hope I'm right!

Cord Hurn wrote:

Rune wrote:When all's said and done it's the real world where we live, that I believe, is enriched and made healthier a place for a dream that is The Land.

Gosh, I've always wanted to think so!
Hope I'm right!

Hej hel jdhl asdhfoud0a 0 dfasjf sd jsdfs dfj09we jwf9e wjef

JIkj fjds j wrote:

Cord Hurn wrote:

Rune wrote:When all's said and done it's the real world where we live, that I believe, is enriched and made healthier a place for a dream that is The Land.

Gosh, I've always wanted to think so!
Hope I'm right!

Hej hel jdhl asdhfoud0a 0 dfasjf sd jsdfs dfj09we jwf9e wjef

That IS a comfort to know!

The Land holds a mirror to its visitors. If Linden came alone instead of Thomas Covenant it would be a different Land than the one Covenant discovered. The challenged always fitted to the heroes. So axiomatically Linden could save the Land though it isn't certain she would've. If a love story is needed there are a couple of possible candidate in the 1st chronicles story, one of them even from our own reality.

JIkj fjds j wrote:

wayfriend wrote:... an important question - why do they both need the same Land? And if it's a dream, how can they be sharing the same dream? Only a "real" Land seems to be plausible.

The Land isn't a real place. This is fundamental to the fantasy genre. It has to remain a dream or else it would undo everything Stephen Donaldson has achieved, (and what could yet be achieved).

How about a real dream? Does that make sense?

JIkj fjds j wrote: Consider the purpose of the The Land - a place where the reader can confront the possibility of a world without Despite. A place that can challenge the imagination into action, to overcome the barriers we all have to face in our daily lives. Without The Land as the dreamworld our real world would be left untouched and unaffected by both the stories and the lives of the characters therein.
When all's said and done it's the real world where we live, that I believe, is enriched and made healthier a place for a dream that is The Land.

Yes. They can share the same dream just like we can read the same story. We can all visit this fictional place. It's pretty easy, actually. All you need is a writer to guide you. Linden had Covenant, we have Donaldson.

The Land is where like-minded folks can confront their own Despite in the context of Beauty. It's idiosyncratic to Covenant and the people who love him (including us, the readers), but it's also universal in the sense that we all must confront Despite in the context of Beauty in the real world.

I thought I already did read the Chronicles of Linden Avery!

(I kid, I kid...I'm not THOOLAH)

I would read The Chronicles of Linden Avery. Not because of any particular love of the character (although I don't hate her like some do) but because more than her or Covenant I love the Land and it's inhabitants.