Kevin's Watch

Who shot first, Greedo or Han? Apparently, Lucas changed the Cantina scene when he remastered the movies in the '90's.

Han obviously.

--A

dANdeLION wrote:Who shot first, Greedo or Han? Apparently, Lucas changed the Cantina scene when he remastered the movies in the '90's.

Well I'm given to understand that Greedo shot first.

You see when Han shot first George Lucas really meant that Greedo shot first. It comes down to viewing the scene from a "certain point of view". Before last week I would have been adamant that Han shot first but now I've been educated. When Han shot first it was simply Han's way of letting Greedo down easy so that it wouldn't hurt his feelings so that later on when Greedo shot first it would all make perfect sense. The big lesson here is that apparently its an established trope in Star Wars that its perfectly fine to say there are 3 moons in the sky when there are actually 2 so that someone's feelings won't be hurt or to make a philosophical point about semantics and points of view etc.

I hope that clears things up once and for all.

I thought they changed it back again?

--A

In the original cut, Greedo never shot anyone. So "Han Shot First" is wrong anyway.

OMG!!!

Good point WF. Han shot, Greedo didn't.

--A

Truth be told Greedo didn't give Han much of a choice. As the scene plays out Greedo, who is holding a blaster on Han, is becoming more and more threatening via the dialog between the two. Once we get to the moment when Greedo says "I've been looking forward to this for a long time" the outcome is predictable. At this point Han and everyone in the audience knows the next thing Greedo is going to do is shoot Han.

There was never any reason for Lucas to soften this scene by editing it so that Greedo shot first because Han was never portrayed as a blood thirsty killer in the first place. As I said before he had no choice.

Nuff said.

aTOMiC, what about the fact that Greedo was Han's father? (His full name was listed as Greedo Solo in the credits.) What we have is a bad kid who shot his own dad because he didn't want to pay back what he owed. "You should have paid him when you had the chance" was just a father chewing out his kid for not flying straight.

wayfriend wrote:aTOMiC, what about the fact that Greedo was Han's father? (His full name was listed as Greedo Solo in the credits.) What we have is a bad kid who shot his own dad because he didn't want to pay back what he owed. "You should have paid him when you had the chance" was just a father chewing out his kid for not flying straight.

You know I hadn't considered that at all.

I blame the fact that Greedo spoke all of his dialog in his native tongue and the audience was forced to read his emotions via subtitles which are unable to convey the conflicted tone in Greedo's voice. On the other hand Han casually walks away from the scene, tossing the "bar keep" a coin and commenting "sorry about the mess". I think Harrison Ford should have emphasized the "sorry" more so that the audience could better identify with the loss his character feels at that moment. Ford is a terrific actor and would normally have no problem emoting in this scene so I blame George Lucas for the failure.

Good post wayfriend and thank you.

In my defense, what Greedo said sounded a lot like, "You're lucky I found you before your mother did."

--A

Han shot first.
I saw the first film 17 times in the cinema back in 1978. That is the version I like.


________
"There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must take it because conscience tells him it is right." - Martin Luther King

Han Solo shot first.

Solo was always a terrible shot.
It was a drunken Stormtrooper.
Greedo also was wanted dead or alive.

darthbuzz wrote:Han shot first.
I saw the first film 17 times in the cinema back in 1978. That is the version I like.

If you're willing to look on the seedier side of the internet, you can find something called the "Silver Screen Edition."

Put together and restored by enthusiasts from 4 of the original theatrical prints. It didn't even have the subtitle "A New Hope" yet. Because of dirt, grime, and mold, they needed the four separate prints to get a complete film, but... it's the closest you can get to seeing it on the big screen.

Actually, there was a DVD release of the Holy Trinity several years back that they caved to fan pressure and had the original prints of. I own 'em, and often prefer to watch that version to the goofy changes.

I have the movie novelization. I wonder what it says. I have to find it.

Here's the text from the novelization. It's not identical to the movie, but it surely captures the main ideas at a point in time before Lucas retconned the story.

"As a matter of fact," Solo replied slowly, "I was just on my way to see your boss. You can tell Jabba I've got the money I owe him."

"That's what you said yesterday - and last week and the week prior to that. It's too late, Solo. I'm not going back to Jabba with another one of your stories."

"But I've really got the money this time!" Solo protested.

"Fine. I'll take it now, please."

Solo sat down slowly. Jabba's minions were apt to be cursed with nervous trigger fingers. The alien took the seat across from him, the muzzle of the ugly little pistol never straying from Solo's chest.

"I haven't got it here with me. Tell Jabba -"

"It's too late, I think. Jabba would rather have your ship."

"Over my dead body," Solo said unamiably.

The alien was not impressed. "If you insist. Will you come outside with me, or must I finish it here?"

"I don't think they'd like another killing in here," Solo pointed out.

Something which might have been a laugh came from the creature's translator. "They'd hardly notice. Get up, Solo. I've been looking forward to this for a long time. You've embarrassed me in front of Jabba with your pious excuses for the last time."

"I think you're right."

Light and noise filled the little corner of the cantina, and when it had faded, all that remained of the unctuous alien was a smoking, slimy spot on the stone floor.

Solo brought his hand and the smoking weapon it held out from beneath the table, drawing bemused stares from several of the cantina's patrons and clucking sounds from its more knowledgeable ones. They had known the creature had committed its fatal mistake in allowing Solo the chance to get his hands under cover.

"It'll take a lot more than the likes of you to finish me off. Jabba the Hut always did skimp when it came to hiring his hands."

Leaving the booth, Solo flipped the bartender a handful of coins as he and Chewbacca moved off. "Sorry for the mess. I always was a rotten host."

(As I see it, not only did Han shoot first, he shot only. But only after it was clear that Greedo intended to kill him imminently.)

More or less tracks with the original movie, just a bit more verbose.