Kevin's Watch

Evolution.

It is a powerful force with regard to life forms.

A single cell evolves into complex multi-cellular organisms and thus a pattern is established.

What direction is the arrow of evolution pointing?

Human beings are gifted with an almost uncontrollable passion for creation.

Humankind has been, and will always be, altered and influenced by evolution. We have evolved noticeably since the first humanoids appeared and if we continue as a species we will undoubtedly evolve further, even if our own technological acumen is somehow influential in what direction our evolution takes us.

Suppose our evologic trajectory ultimately takes us to a future where humans are capable of influencing an extra dimensional sphere of existence in such a way that we are able to cause a new universe to come into being, according to our will, strictly because we have evolved to the point that such power has become possible and we are still influenced and motivated by our primitive drive toward creativity.

What would that make us?

If we were capable of making universes right this very moment would we not?

Even with our limited abilities are we not now creating complex virtual realities, simulations to try to satisfy our thirst for creativity?

And if it is conceivable that the powerful engine of evolution could create in us abilities that transcend the limits of our current understanding might such a thing have happened before?

13.82 Billion years ago.

+JMJ+

You know I have to do this.

link

wayfriend wrote:You know I have to do this.

link

WF, definitely a relevant link to an even more relevant comment.
I don't remember running across that thread. I wonder what other 12 year old threads are floating around this discussion board that are as fascinating but are hidden by time and metric tons of newer discussions. Frankly if I'd known there was another thread so similar I wouldn't have started this one, I'd have bumped the old one. So I created a new one which is oddly similar to this discussion subject.

I didn't happen to be thinking in terms of cycles. "It all has to end and therefore it has to begin again in the same place, exactly the same way".

"All of this will happened before and all of this will happen again." is again similar to what I was envisioning but it still locks us all into the same circular pattern. Which, by the way, is just as valid a way of looking at things as anything I have been thinking of.

However my thoughts were in terms of external addition not replacement.

Also the idea that the creator is destroyed by the end of creation and in turn is created by that which ultimately becomes the creator suggests that there would be a time when the creator didn't exist until it was created by its creation. I guess that's a long way of saying God would be dead...until he wasn't.

I referenced humanity as evolving, one day, to a point of godlike abilities but my point is that what we may become may have existed outside of our universe which caused its creation due to a common trait shared by gods and men...the drive of creativity.

By my way of thinking this universe is unique, though its theoretically possible that it is linked to a multiverse that possesses an infinite number of variations etc, but setting that aside I find the notion of human creativity and evolution being the engine for the creation of a new reality to be very interesting.

How would our version of a universe be different than the one we inhabit?

When it comes to understanding what the universe actually is we humans are but infants. If we were to create a new universe based on our current knowledge we'd change things out of sheer ignorance.

I can't imagine what kind of hot mess we'd make.

Oh, yes, my post was only tangentially similar.

You can also theorize that if we achieve "godness" it might be that we would be free from the constraints of time, and so we could have created ourselves in this universe.

In the vein of your first thought ... if we achieve enough "godness" to create another universe ... it may be that the universe we create is every bit as complete as the one we inhabit. But it may be less. It may be we are a link on a chain of ever-lessening universes.

Or ever-greatening ones. Each successive universe may be better, as we bootstrap ourselves towards some sort of 'heaven'.

Think on that, ye mighty.

All of which makes Valentine Michael Smith all the more profound.

In [i]Stranger in a Strange Land[/i] was wrote:"You told me, 'God made the World.'"
"No, no!" Harshaw said hastily. "I told you that, while all these many religions said many things, most of them said, 'God made the World.' I told you that I did not grok the fullness, but that 'God' was the word that was used."
"Yes, Jubal," Mike agreed. "Word is 'God'" He added. "You grok."
"No, I must admit I don't grok."
"You grok," Smith repeated firmly. "I am explain. I did not have the word. You grok. Anne groks. I grok. The grass under my feet groks in happy beauty. But I needed the word. The word is God."
Jubal shook his head to clear it. "Go ahead."
Mike pointed triumphantly at Jubal. "Thou art God!"
Jubal slapped a hand to his face. "Oh, Jesus H. - What have I done? Look, Mike, take it easy! Simmer down! You didn't understand me. I'm sorry. I'm very sorry! Just forget what I've been saying and we'll start over again on another day. But - "
"Thou art God," Mike repeated serenely. "That which groks. Anne is God. I am God. The happy grass are God, Jill groks in beauty always. Jill is God. All shaping and making and creating together - ." He croaked something in Martian and smiled.

wayfriend wrote:
Or ever-greatening ones. Each successive universe may be better, as we bootstrap ourselves towards some sort of 'heaven'.

Think on that, ye mighty.

Indeed.

It occurs to me that if we were indeed our own god sprung from the previous incarnation of the universe or perhaps we've returned from the future to create the universe in the first place, that would explain the anthropomorphic view of such gods as we subconsciously identify with such a being or beings as we were indeed created in our own image.

Gene Wolfe wrote:On the nature of death and the dead, we may enumerate 12 types:

First are those who become new gods, and for whom new universes are born.

In John 10:34 was wrote:Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods?'"

--A

Gene Wolfe wrote:On the nature of death and the dead, we may enumerate 12 types:

First are those who become new gods, and for whom new universes are born.

This just circles back to another discussion where I propose that each person's unique experience and point of view creates an independent, personal universe that interacts simultaneously with the others around them.