President Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Post by **Avatar** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:18 am

Doesn't matter, the Israeli's wouldn't have gone quietly and now we'd be debating the Palestinians treatment of them instead.

Thanks Wos.

Seems to me that Isael's offers in this regard have largely been a poisoned chalice...they offer a deal that they know the other side will reject, then throw up their hands and say "we tried..."

(Not saying that the reverse isn't true as well though. *sigh* )

--A

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:13 pm

How cute--the UN passed a non-binding resolution against the United States' decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The UN is irrelevant and should be ignored. Yes, it started off as a wonderful idea--let's all come together, hold hands, and sing campfire songs--but in the last 10 years or so it has become nothing more than an echo chamber for anti-U. S. rhetoric.

If the decision were up to me, I would immediately stop any and all funding of the UN and then let them see how they fare without all the money they get from us. Incidentally, the United States is by far the single largest contributor to the UN--it continues to exist only because we are paying the bills.

Post by **Wosbald** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:59 pm

+JMJ+

Poll: Fewer than half of Americans support Jerusalem recognition

A giant US flag screened alongside Israel's national flag on the walls of the Old City in Jerusalem, December 6, 2017. (Ahmad Gharabli/AFP)

Only 36% of respondents to CNN survey favor moving US embassy to holy city; support for Trump recognizing Israel's capital split along party lines

A poll released Friday indicated that fewer than half of Americans support US President Donald Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital, with an even smaller number supporting moving the US embassy to the city from Tel Aviv.

On whether they approve of recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital, 44 percent of respondents told CNN they back Trump's decision, while 45% said they disapprove. Only 36% said they support moving the US embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, as Trump said he would.

Support for the move was sharply split along party lines. Among Republicans, 79% said they approve recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital, while two-thirds favor moving the embassy to the city. On the other side of the aisle, 71% of Democrats opposed both decisions.

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Jewish and evangelical Americans are divided over plan to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem

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Only 16 percent of Jewish Americans support moving the embassy to Jerusalem immediately, according to AJC's 2017 Survey of American Jewish Opinion. Slightly more than a third  36 percent  favor moving it "at a later date in conjunction with progress in Israeli-Palestinian peace talks." But a plurality  44 percent  disagree with moving the embassy all together.

Nearly 170 Jewish studies scholars from American colleges and universities signed a statement expressing "dismay" at Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital:

Jerusalem is of immense religious and thus emotional significance to Jews, Muslims, and Christians alike. It is the focus of national aspirations for both Israelis and Palestinians. We hope one day to see a world in which all inhabitants of the land enjoy equal access to the city's cultural and material resources. Today, unfortunately, that is not the case.

A declaration from the United States government that appears to endorse sole Jewish proprietorship over Jerusalem adds insult to ongoing injury and is practically guaranteed to fan the flames of violence. We therefore call on the U.S. government to take immediate steps to de-escalate the tensions resulting from the President's declaration and to clarify Palestinians' legitimate stake in the future of Jerusalem.
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White evangelicals are the religious group that supports Trump at the highest rate, and he won their support during the 2016 campaign in part by promoting pro-Israel policies.

Palestinian Christians argue that Christian evangelicals' support of Israel doesn't take into consideration the rights and needs of Christians in the homeland of their religion.

"This is where it all started," said the Rev. Mitri Raheb, a Lutheran pastor in Bethlehem. "The Bible originated in Palestine, not in the Bible Belt, but people in the Bible Belt read the Bible in a way that really makes our lives difficult."

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Post by **Wosbald** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:08 pm

+JMJ+

Guatemala Follows U.S. Lead, Will Move Its Israel Embassy To Jerusalem

Guatemala's President Jimmy Morales addresses the United Nations General Assembly on Sept. 19, 2017, at the United Nations headquarters.
Frank Franklin II/AP

Guatemalan President Jimmy Morales announced in a Facebook post on Sunday that the Latin American country would be moving its embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.

The announcement makes Guatemala the first country to follow the U.S. decision to move its embassy to Jerusalem.

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Jerusalem set to permit 300 new East Jerusalem homes

Construction cranes in the neighborhood of Gilo in East Jerusalem, January 16, 2011. (AP Photo/Sebastian Scheiner, file)

Council to give approval for eight buildings in Gilo, despite reported Trump administration request for 'calm' after recognition

The Jerusalem municipality is set to approve building permits for some 300 new housing units in East Jerusalem on Monday, potentially adding to already high tensions over the city.

The new homes will be in eight buildings in the west of the Jerusalem neighborhood of Gilo, a majority Jewish area on the southern end of the city near Bethlehem, according to the committee's schedule, seen by the Times of Israel on Sunday.

US President Donald Trump's Middle East peace envoy, Jason Greenblatt, had reportedly asked Israel not to do anything that would inflame the region following US President Donald Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital earlier this month, including approval of new homes over the Green Line, Hadashot news reported recently.

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Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:30 pm

Fewer than half of Americans support Jerusalem recognition, you say? I suspect that fewer than half of Americans can point to Israel on a blank world map so I wouldn't worry about their opinions too much.

If the Palestinians want to retake the land where the new settlements are going to be placed then they know what they need to do--fight for it. If they decide to make that choice then I wish them good luck...because they will need it. I still maintain that the Palestinians should count themselves lucky that Israel hasn't retaken the entire city by force.

Post by **Wosbald** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:19 am

+JMJ+

Iranian Parliament's Bill Requires Gov't to Recognize Jerusalem as Palestinian Capital Forever

TEHRAN (FNA)- The Iranian legislators approved a bill which requires the government to support Jerusalem al-Quds as the permanent capital city of Palestine.

The bill was approved within the framework of a double-urgency plan on Wednesday with 207 yes votes and no opposition or abstentions.

The parliamentarians had voted to the double-urgency plan on Sunday.

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Post by **Wosbald** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:24 pm

+JMJ+

Synagogues vandalized as Iran declares Jerusalem 'capital of Palestine'

Illustrative: An Iranian Jew prays in a synagogue in Shiraz, Iran.
(Public domain/Creative commons)

Shiraz Jewish community says has no leads vandals' identities, believes attack related to Trump Jerusalem move

A second synagogue in southern Iran was reported vandalized on Wednesday, with attackers damaging Torah scrolls, prayer books, and ritual objects by a suspected group of vandals in the city of Shiraz.

The vandalism targeting Jewish places of worship in the city came as Iran's parliament voted unanimously on Wednesday to recognize Jerusalem as the "permanent capital of Palestine" in response to US President Donald Trump's backing of Israel's claim on the disputed Holy City earlier this month.

A senior adviser to the Iranian-American Jewish Federation, Sam Kermainian, said that the city's Kashi Synagogue was attacked on Sunday night, and the Hadash synagogue was attacked Monday afternoon, according to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA).

A statement by the Iranian-American Jewish Federation called on Iranian authorities "to ensure the protection of all places of worship as well as all members of our community, and to bring the perpetrators of these criminal acts to justice."

The local Jewish community said it has no leads on the identity of the vandals, but suspects that more than one person was involved, JTA reported.

Speaking to Israel's Channel 10 news, one member of Shiraz's Jewish community said they believe the attack came in response to US President Donald Trump's December 6 declaration recognizing Israel's claim over the disputed city of Jerusalem.

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Post by **shadowbinding shoe** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:15 pm

Wosbald wrote:+JMJ+

Synagogues vandalized as Iran declares Jerusalem 'capital of Palestine'
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What's your point here, I wonder? That we should base our policy on fear? Let the world's bullies dictate our behavior?

Post by **Wosbald** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:03 pm

+JMJ+

Guatemala and Honduras sided with Trump on Jerusalem. Here's why.

Guatemalan Foreign Minister Sandra Jovel said her country's plan to move its embassy to Jerusalem is simply part of a "coherent" foreign policy. (Moises Castillo/AP)

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Guatemala and Honduras have a lot to lose by upsetting the Trump administration, as the crackdown on illegal immigration has raised the prospect of more deportations, and regional trade and foreign aid have been called into question. But analysts see their actions last week as more than just attempts to curry favor with Washington. Both countries have long-standing ties to Israel and are facing domestic challenges that are helped by aligning with conservatives in the United States and Israel.

Guatemalan President James Morales, a former television comedian and an evangelical Christian, relies on the support of his country's influential evangelical community, which has consistently advocated for Israel's right to have Jerusalem as its capital, considering it a biblical issue as much as a political one.

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"He's trying to please his political base," said Fernando Carrera, a former Guatemalan foreign minister and ambassador to the United Nations. "He's also trying to close the gap of confidence with the United States."

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The president of Honduras, Juan Orlando Hernandez, is also in a politically precarious position and could use the Trump administration's help. Protests have roiled Honduras for the past month after a disputed election. The State Department recognized Hernandez as the winner over challenger Salvador Nasralla, despite calls by the Organization of American States for a revote.

The Trump administration is still considering whether to deport some 57,000 Hondurans living with temporary immigration status in the United States. Honduras has also received military aid from Israel that has worried its neighbors and raised human rights concerns.

Many expect that Honduras could also announce its intention to move its embassy to Jerusalem. One Latin American diplomat, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to comment publicly, said there is a "strong possibility of Honduras being next."

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Post by **Avatar** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:42 am

Wosbald wrote: Iranian Parliament's Bill Requires Gov't to Recognize Jerusalem as Palestinian Capital Forever

Meh...simple grandstanding...just doing the opposite of the US no matter what.

Just like Honduras etc. but in reverse.

--A

Post by **Wosbald** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:12 pm

+JMJ+

Avatar wrote:
Wosbald wrote: Iranian Parliament's Bill Requires Gov't to Recognize Jerusalem as Palestinian Capital Forever
Meh...simple grandstanding...just doing the opposite of the US no matter what.

Just like Honduras etc. but in reverse.

--A

Post by **Wosbald** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:14 pm

+JMJ+

Palestinians recall US envoy 'for consultations' after Donald Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Mr Trump's decision sparked days of protests Reuters/Ammar Awad

Leaders deciding on shape of future relationship with US

The Palestinian Authority has recalled its envoy to the US following Donald Trump's decision to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

The move will allow for "consultations" over leaders' future relationship with the US.

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Husam Zomlot was recalled by Palestinian foreign minister Riad al-Maliki.

Mr Al-Maliki said discussions would take place "to set the decisions needed by the Palestinian leadership in the coming period regarding our relations with the US."

Mr Zomlot is expected to return to "his normal work" after the consultation, he added.

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Post by **Ur Dead** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:08 am

Well with everybody taking side and the UN doing it thing.
I suggest we close the UN building in New York and rebuild it on Guam.
Kim Jong Un or whoever he is can threaten to nuke it and
let the chip fall.

Post by **Skyweir** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:39 am

Wow very interesting reads Wos

Its such a sad tragic mess but yeah

Who wouldve thought such low support from the US Jewish community for Trumps recognition of Jerusalem. I think that is quite interesting indeed.

Post by **Wosbald** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:52 am

+JMJ+

Why Trump's funding threat to Palestinians is even more dangerous than Jerusalem move

Donald Trump has demonstrated either that he does not understand the situation, or does understand but does not care. Photograph: Evan Vucci/AP

The US president is treating the Middle East peace process like a Manhattan property deal that he can bully to the table

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His speech recognising Jerusalem as the Israeli capital breached international consensus and UN resolutions. But the latest move  a threat to cut funding to UNRWA, the UN agency that supports Palestinian refugees, and to the Palestinian Authority  is more dangerous still, demonstrating a lack of understanding of the delicate mechanics that help maintain relative peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

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The Palestinian camps run by UNRWA contain many of the poorest and most disadvantaged Palestinians. It is in these camps, in places such as Ramallah, Nablus and Jenin on the West Bank  and across Gaza  that many of the most radicalised of the Palestinian factions reside.

It was from these camps that the first and second intifadas emerged and where both Fatah and the Islamist group Hamas were born. They are places that pride themselves both on their resilience and on being the conscience of the Palestinian national movement.

Since the second intifada the weapons still held by the factions have largely remained inside these camps, kept under control by the Palestinian security forces of President Mahmoud Abbas.

The interventions by Trump and, hours earlier, his UN ambassador, Nikki Haley, would seem to hit the twin poles of that fragile arrangement: UNRWA and the wider Palestinian Authority.

There is another, more far-reaching impact. For years, the international community, with the US at its head, has "coup-proofed" the Palestinian Authority, to use the term popularised by the political scientist Edward Luttwak.

International financial and technical support for Palestinian bureaucracy has paid salaries and supported NGOs working in key social areas, a flow of cash that has underpinned the Palestinian Authority's security cooperation with Israel, thereby checking the influence of Hamas on the West Bank.

More serious still, while as yet still a distant prospect, is concern over what would happen if the Palestinian Authority collapsed. One consequence might be a return to Israeli responsibility for administering services in the occupied territories.

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Post by **Wosbald** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:44 pm

+JMJ+

Israel Accused Of Revoking Thousands Of Jerusalem Residency Permits From Palestinians

A Palestinian man walks near a construction site of a new housing unit in a neighborhood in East Jerusalem known to Jewish settlers as Har Homa and to Palestinians as Jabal Abu Ghneim. The Palestinians want East Jerusalem to be the capital of a future state and object to Israeli building there and throughout the West Bank. Israel claims all of Jerusalem as its capital.

President Trump has recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital. But a third of Jerusalem's residents are not Israeli citizens at all. They're Palestinians who hold Israeli residency papers.

Israel has revoked those papers from thousands of Palestinian residents, rights groups say. Jerusalem's mayor, however, would not acknowledge it.

"I'm not aware of anybody that his residency was provoked [sic]," Mayor Nir Barkat said in an interview with NPR's Morning Edition about the revocations. "I think, factually, this is probably not true."

But according to an August report by Human Rights Watch, Israel has revoked the residency status of at least 14,595 Palestinians in East Jerusalem since Israel captured the territory from Jordan in 1967. The group cited data that lawyers and rights groups collected from Israel's Interior Ministry through freedom of information requests and court cases.

In recent years about 100 Palestinians annually have been stripped of their residency rights in the city, though in 2008 alone more than 4,500 Palestinians lost their residency permits, according to data compiled by the rights group HaMoked. The Interior Ministry did not respond to several requests by NPR for comment.

Most of these revocations happened to Palestinians who left the city for an extended period of time, rights group say. Some groups have called it a "silent transfer" of Palestinians out of the city amid a battle over East Jerusalem, which Palestinians want to be the capital of a future Palestinian state.

"It's the opposite of encouraging people to be part of Israeli society. It's to push them out," said Daniel Shenhar, an Israeli lawyer who represents Palestinians whose residency rights have expired. "It's not violent. It's bureaucratic."

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Taking Issues "Off the Table" - First Jerusalem, Now Refugees

Last month, President Donald Trump granted a cherished wish of American and Israeli hardliners, taking Jerusaleman issue that the Oslo Agreement stipulated would be resolved only in permanent status negotiations"off the table." Now, only weeks later, American and Israeli hardliners are again trembling with anticipation at the possibility that Trump will fulfill another long-held desire: destroying or crippling the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), the UN agency that supports Palestine refugees across the Middle East.

Many are now arguing, correctly, that undermining UNRWA will threaten an already fragile status quo in the West Bank and Gaza (not to mention Jordan and Lebanon), and thus would be bad for Israel and would have serious humanitarian implications for Palestinians. For these and other reasons, some suggest that the attack on Palestinian aid is a tactical "misstep" by the Trump Administration. These arguments miss the point: with this new approach to UNRWA, undermining the status quo is a feature, not a bug.

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Post by **Ur Dead** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:43 pm

Any outside group trying to bring peace to the Middle East is pissing up a rope.
If Israel and Palestinians wanted peace they would do it by themselves.
Trump should call it a wash and cut funding to both sides.
Let them figure it out. They don't need US money to keep the status quo...
Moaning, bitching and attacking each other.

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:07 pm

On the one hand, it is clear that Israel hold all the cards and since the territory belongs to them (they won it as the outcome of a military conflict) they may do with it what they please--set up new Jewish settlements, revoke residency papers, etc.

On the other hand--now for the extremely controversial part--it would probably be easier living as a German Jew in Frankfurt in 1934 than it would be living as a Palestinian in Jerusalem in 2018.

Post by **Skyweir** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:48 pm

Well not really Israel was a British protectorate, spoil of war following WW2. But the British left after a number of difficulties they faced trying to manage that territory including terrorist bombing of King David Hotel by right wing Zionist group. It resulted in arguably, 90 or so unintentional deaths and more injured.

Attacks of this kind but less severe continued and although at first the British stepped up controls and restrictions they eventually surrendered Palestine and the trans Jordan region.

These events are historically known as the positive economy of terrorism or in example of the success of terrorism, in that despite shifting alliances among Jewish groups, they achieved exactly what they wanted, the British exodus.

Post by **shadowbinding shoe** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:32 pm

The region was ruled as a 'mandate', not a colony from the start of the British and French presence in the area. It was never meant to be part of British sovereignty. If the two World Wars didn't occur maybe colonies would still fill the globe but they did and the European powers retreated from almost every single land they possessed before. The Jewish sabotage acts and Arab uprisings wouldn't come to anything if it wasn't for those two wars.

Hashi - why 1934? At that time the Nazi were still mostly using government-approved terrorist acts by their party goons against Jews. It took them time to grow into complete monsters. Also, the historic contexts are completely different.

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President Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital