President Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

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Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Agreed. If its Arab neighbors were not ultimately seeking Israel's destruction, Israel wouldn't have a problem with its neighbors and there wouldn't be any fighting.
In 1983, Israeli Army Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan wrote:We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel...Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours.

When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle
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mmm.. nice 😏 ... and not nice quote.

The existence of the Arab cocroach seems like all the incentive the Israeli army need. Such a fucked up mess.
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Israel's dehumanization of Palestinians enables oppressive occupation
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Israeli security forces get orders in Bethlehem, West Bank, as Palestinians protest U.S. President Donald Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. (CNS/Debbie Hill)


[…]

The Israeli narrative continues that all Israel's wars, including in 1967 when Israel attacked Egypt and Syria first, the invasion and occupation of southern Lebanon from 1982-2000, and the three Gaza conflicts in 2008, 2012 and 2014, were wars of self-defense. Additionally, Israel wants to offer Palestinians a state of their own, but Palestinian intransigence and hatred of Israel have prevented that.

The Arab-Palestinian narrative, on the other hand, is that Israel has never had any intention of allowing the establishment of a viable and independent Palestinian state based on the internationally recognized 1967 lines. Instead, Israel has tried to package an emasculated and patchwork Palestinian state lacking all symbols of sovereignty, such as control over its own borders, as a huge concession on its part. All the while Israel is eating away at Palestinian land it occupies through relentless and illegal settlement activity to render the possibility of a future Palestinian state meaningless.

No matter which historical narrative you choose to believe, the present situation is clear. Today, Israel has no intention on allowing the Palestinians to establish a viable and independent state with all the trappings of sovereignty that any other country has. It intends to retain control over large swathes of the occupied Palestinian Territories, including a future Palestinian state's borders and airspace. In other words, give the Palestinians a flag, a passport and a stamp, and call it a state.

This fundamental disagreement over the definition of a future Palestinian state is what keeps the conflict alive and what allows extremist and terrorist groups of all types to manipulate the legitimate Palestinian cause to justify continued violence against Israel. The 'Why' answered.

Which leads to the next obvious question. How has Israel, one of the world's strongest military powers, been able to maintain and justify a brutal military occupation for 41 years against a people who, in contrast to Israel, are basically defenseless, lacking any army, navy or air force?

The answer is based on three basic tenets that allow Israelis to both justify and ignore an occupation unprecedented in modern times in terms of its length and oppression.

[…]


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Palestine has been offered many times a sovereign state, but they never accept. They have many times said, they will accept no terms that recognizes Israel as a State in lands that they feel belong to Palestine. Going all the way back to 1947 it has been rejection after rejection of all Statehood offers. Some of those offers were not so good, some gave them much of what they were asking for and would have given them a Statehood to build on.

Here is a pretty good synopsis of their position and the current position of HAMAS
The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf (Islamic religious endowment) consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem.
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They mostly don't accept because Israel (deliberately) includes conditions which they already know the Palestinians won't accept.

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😞
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Avatar wrote:They mostly don't accept because Israel (deliberately) includes conditions which they already know the Palestinians won't accept.

--A
When they did get offers that were palatable and without the 'poison pill', these are some of the reasons they walked away. Palestine has been very clear that they will not accept anything short of a Pan Arab solution where Israel is no longer considered a State within lands they feel that belong to the Pan Arab state.

Israel refusing to leave Arab lands totally.

Not accepting an area of protection between the two states while Palestine finds ways to enforce its own border.

Refusing to allow free traffic (open borders) between the two states.
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Palestinian Envoy to US says Trump's Jerusalem Decision was a 'Backstabbing'
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Husam Zomlot and Mahmoud Abbas. (photo credit: Courtesy)


He said Palestinians might target Congress, the elites, the media and the Jewish community.

[…]

The remarks, while defiant, also underscored a key Palestinian weakness, one [PLO envoy, Husam] Zomlot said his side must take blame for: They had failed to make their case to the American people, while domestic support for Israel in the United States remained strong.

"We need to start the real process of either removing Israel-Palestine [as a domestic issue] or making Palestine a domestic issue," he said. "But just to keep Israel as a domestic issue and not Palestine — that hasn't worked for 26 years."

He said Palestinians might target Congress, the elites, the media and the Jewish community.

[…]

Zomlot suggested the winds were in the Palestinians' favor, alluding to an erosion of support for Israel among younger and liberal Americans.

Netanyahu "can speak to this Congress," he said. "But can he speak at a university in California or Wisconsin?"

[…]


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The greater indignity is that they believe they need to appeal to the US for their individual and state authentication.
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Skyweir wrote:The greater indignity is that they believe they need to appeal to the US for their individual and state authentication.
Would you care to go into further detail on that statement?
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Well normally in the pursuit of sovereignty a state would declare its sovereignty and then seek international recognition, via the UN and other states recognising it .. not just receiving it from the US ;)
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Trump, Pence effigies hanged and burned in Palestinian protest
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Palestinians in the Aida refugee camp near Bethlehem hang effigies of Donald Trump and Mike Pence, January 27, 2018 (Facebook)


Demonstration in refugee camp near Bethlehem meant to show 'rejection' of US cuts to UNRWA, according to Palestinian TV


Palestinian television on Saturday aired a video of Palestinians carrying out a mock-execution of US President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence.

Effigies of the US leaders were hanged and then burned in a street in the Aida refugee camp north of Bethlehem.

[…]

Wattan TV said the action was intended as a "rejection" by protesters of US cuts to UNRWA. Wattan is an independent TV station based in Ramallah.

Before the "execution" protesters held up Palestinian flags and various placards, including one with pictures of Trump, Pence and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, all with 'X' marks on them. Above them was written: "Zionism = Nazism = fascism. USA = ISIS = terror."

A poll released last week showed support for armed struggle has almost doubled among Palestinians in the last six months: Only 26 percent of Palestinians said they supported a peace deal, a staggering decline from 45% last June. Thirty-eight percent supported armed struggle, up from just 21% in the previous survey.

The same poll, by the Tami Steinmetz Center for Peace Research at Tel Aviv University and the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah, found that Israeli backing for a decisive military offensive to end the conflict increased during the same period by almost 60 percent.

The rise in militancy was believed to be tied to Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital on December 6.

[…]


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German president talks refugees, Jerusalem on Jordan trip
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Both President Steinmeier and King Abdullah II stopped short of declaring for one side in the controversy over Jerusalem's status. Steinmeier thanked Jordan for accepting hundreds of thousands of refugees from Syria.


German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier honored Jordan for accepting hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees during a state visit on Sunday, expressing Germany's "huge respect and admiration" during talks with King Abdullah II.

There are more than 600,000 refugees living in Jordan, which has a population of about 10 million. Steinmeier is due to visit a camp for Syrian asylum seekers on Monday.

During their talks, Steinmeier and Abdullah II discussed the controversial move by US President Donald Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

"I think there are very good reasons to question the theory that unilateral recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel would contribute to the consolidation of peace in the Middle East," the president was quoted by the Jordanian daily Al-Ghad as saying.

"I think our views on Palestine and Jerusalem are well known to you," the king told Steinmeier. "We do believe in a two-state solution, with [east] Jerusalem as a capital for the Palestinians."

[…]


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SoulBiter wrote: When they did get offers that were palatable and without the 'poison pill', these are some of the reasons they walked away.
As I've said before, there are people on both sides for whom conflict is more desirable than peace.

Unfortunately it's everybody else who suffers.

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Not any real condemnation of Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as I
see it.
Or let me put it this way..
A child is born in Turkey, or Jordan, or Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Libya or any
western or eastern country. They would still be considered Palestinians
even if their great,great grandparents were the ones who left to live
elsewhere. The stigma is too embedded in the world.
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Ex-US envoy says Trump's Jerusalem comments could be 'death knell' for peace
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Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (R) and the US Ambassador to Israel Daniel B. Shapiro, seen in 2014, met two days after the US abstained from voting on a UN resolution against Israeli settlements
JACK GUEZ (AFP/File)



Last week Donald Trump said Jerusalem was no longer an issue in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process


US President Donald Trump's comment that he has taken Jerusalem "off the table" as negotiating issue between Israelis and Palestinians could be the "death knell" of the peace process, Barack Obama's envoy to Israel warned on Tuesday.

"President Trump's language when he speaks about 'taking Jerusalem off the table' is terribly imprecise. We don't really know what he means," Ambassador Dan Shapiro told i24NEWS in an interview at the Institute for National Security Studies (INSS) conference in Tel Aviv.

[…]

"If [Trump] means that there is nothing left to negotiate and Palestinians have no hope of achieving some of their aspirations, including a capital of their state in portions of East Jerusalem, that clearly is going to be a death knell to any prospect of a future negotiation," Shaprio, who was Obama's envoy in Tel Aviv from 2011 to January 2017 said.

"No Palestinian leader would be able to negotiate on those terms."

However, Shaprio said that while the statement was construed as Trump rejecting the core Palestinian demand, he may have just misspoken.

According to Shapiro, several members of the Trump administration have indicated that what the president actually meant was that he removed from discussions Israel's claim to Jerusalem as its capital and whether the US embassy will be located in West Jerusalem, which Shaprio says are "reasonable things to take off the table."

"Of course it would have been smarter if he had been able to capture that decision as part of the broader strategic objective where all sides could see what they might be able to achieve," Shapiro said.

[…]


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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Apparently Imad al-Alami, one of the most senior members of Hamas after suffering "an accidental self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head".

Can you say "bullshit"?

Senior members of Hamas--for years it was nothing more than a terrorist organiztion--don't commit suicide and they don't accidentally shoot themselves in the head. The only question we cannot answer at this time is this: which sub-group in Hamas killed him to make way for new leadership?.
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Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Apparently Imad al-Alami, one of the most senior members of Hamas after suffering "an accidental self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head".

Can you say "bullshit"?

Senior members of Hamas--for years it was nothing more than a terrorist organiztion--don't commit suicide and they don't accidentally shoot themselves in the head. The only question we cannot answer at this time is this: which sub-group in Hamas killed him to make way for new leadership?.
Oooh, a new conspiracy theory!

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Or was it Hamas who did it at all...

Be interesting to see who steps into his shoes.

--A
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