Kevin's Watch

There was something in Lord Foul's Bane that confused me when I read it. It had to do with what happened to Mhoram's parents at the battle of Soaring Woodhelvin.

Before the battle, his parents went and laid down beside each other, and there was what appeared to be an argument between Mhoram and his parents. Then a short while later, they all took positions and the battle started. After the battle, it turned out his parents were dead before the battle began. They were used as bait.

So my question is, how did his parents die? Did they commit suicide together knowing there was no way they would survive anyway, or did they simply pass away? They seemed to be in good enough health to not be on the verge of death. I don't recall the books really clarifying this, and there was nothing that really suggested that they killed themselves.

I kinda figured they gave their strength in some way that helped the others. Never spelled out, that's for sure.

Welcome to the Watch!

Welcome Nanothnir Great to have you among us.

Great question. I cant say I can recall precisely but didnt their combined magic pass to the Lords, via Mhoram. A sacrifice rather than a suicide. Life, magic and power released that resulted in their deaths.

When I get home tomorrow I will look it up, and lets talk more about that battle.

In [u]Lord Foul's Bane[/u] was wrote:Covenant was marginally aware that Lord Mhoram no longer attended Prothall and Llaura. He had joined Variol and Tamarantha, and appeared to be arguing with them. They lay side by side on their backs, holding hands, and he stood over them as if he were trying to ward off a shadow. But they were unmoved. Through his protests, Tamarantha said softly, "It is better thus, my son." And Variol murmured, "Poor Llaura. This is all we can do."

It seems to me that they simply lay down and then died. Perhaps they merely allowed their old frames to expire. Perhaps they had some lore which allowed them to expire by force of will. But there's no potion or anything like that mentioned. They just chose to die, and did.

It's a common conceit in literature, I feel, that a person who is very, very old can let themselves die whenever they choose to. As if their will to live was what held them together, and they could just decide to take it away.

Oddly, it seems like Mhoram understood what they intended to do, and objected to it. Did he recognize their intent? Or did they tell him as part of saying good-bye in some way? But he lost the argument ... how can you prevent someone from dying when they can die at will?

Thats perfectly put wayfriend. A wilful death indeed. Was it just age, was there something more. I feel dissatisfied if there was no reason other than expiring. Why then. Maybe their only purpose was expiring lol but I kinda hope not. I would like to think it served some purpose.

I feel driven now to find a purpose. Mainly because of the timing.

But alas it wouldnt be the first time I was disappointed at finding no higher meaning to such seemingly senseless acts. Yes they were old but not in obvious or overt ill health. Was it their combined time. How was this determined.

It was the only thing in LFB that really bugged me. It almost feels like it was done as an afterthought in order to demonstrate how Covenant can sometimes be very selfish and demonstrate lack of compassion. After the battle, Covenant was furious because a bloodguard was slain trying to guard two corpses. As Mhoram was mourning their deaths and cremating the remains, you could almost feel that Mhoram wanted to strike Covenant after he said what he said and after he refused the staff. Then he turned around and did basically the same thing when he made fun of SHFF when he was using the fire as a camorra.

The purpose behind Variol and Tamarantha's death is simple, and explained in the story.

In [i]Lord Foul's Bane[/i] was wrote:"Hold peace for all your grief. Variol and Tamarantha are ended. Who could deny them? They knew the time of their death. They read the close of their lives in the ashes of Soaring Woodhelven, and were glad to serve us with their last sleep. They chose to draw the attack upon themselves so that we might live. Who will say that the challenge which they met was not great? Remember the Oath, and hold Peace."

Of course Covenant came across as an a-hole. That was, as you said, quite intentional. But selfish? Maybe. He refused the staff that was offered, which is the opposite of selfish. Certainly though he didn't consider Mhoram's feelings: he did not accept the gift, and so did not honor the giver. And the burning, well, who could blame Covenant for not foreseeing that outcome. He was consumed by his own confusions and pains by the Battle of Soaring Woodhelven (He himself had killed five Cavewights, five-!), so who are we to judge? It's complex. And Donaldson, I think, did it justice in rendering the complexity well. It is one of the best scenes in the book.