Kevin's Watch

*deep breath*
Yeah, so... back in late 2014 / early 2015, (especially right around the time the year flipped over from one to the other) I was going through treatments for breast cancer, and was suddenly grappling with my own mortality far more than usual.

And then something FLIPPED, and for awhile I became somewhat irrational.
(I mean, there's a sense in which we all believe lies every day, and that's kinda irrational... I mean way more "out there" than that.)

I'm askin' if people want to hear more stuff from me about this time.

I kinda want to talk about it, but also kinda don't want to talk about it.

And I don't want to talk about it just "for myself."
And even if I do talk about it, the narrative will probably only come out slowly, one drop at a time.

[Edit: meh. added a few more details; finished a few sentences I forgot to.]

Yes, please, for multiple reasons -- thus, no vote in the poll.

Will it be good for you? It is said that catharsis has that effect. Also, you may recall an exchange of PMs we had several years ago, long before your illness. You'd asked me a relatively innocuous question and I ended up baring a lot of stuff that was up-in-the-air back then. Taking the time to write all that out, and then using what I had written as prompts to pursue further conversations with those involved was an important step in bringing that situation to the stable, best-for-all-concerned resolution now in place.

Will it be useful to others? I would think so. If you had read what you now are considering writing prior to going through the experiences, would you have gotten insights from that reading that would have helped you through the experience?

Will it be of 'morbid interest' to Watchers with no direct need to know? Probably (yes, you should consider the 'harmless but consistent cyberstalker' source of that assessment), and those who are uninterested can choose to forego reading.

Post count? Absolutely, if that sort of thing matters to you.

Agreed that you ought not call yourself crazy. No more than the rest of us. We're all bozos on this bus.


Don't fictionalize it. Keep it real.

I think it will be good for you.

I also think that it will good for those that have had similar or comparable experiences.

My experience is that many of us have either dealt with directly or dealt with someone close to us that have had experiences/feelings that might not fit the "norm" whatever norm means - but that is another can of worms.

Just one minor example. A few years ago I experienced a minor depression. Before that I could not really understand too well people in a depressed state. But that short lived disconnection of emotion that I experienced helped me more aware of what some people go through, some for most of their life.

Thus, reading your experiences may help those that are dealing with similar experiences or know of someone who is.

Also as Savor Dam states those that are not interested can just choose not to read the posts

Bring it on Linna

For all the reasons already stated

Crazy? We're all crazy here.

--A

I am a "blow in" here, so I totally get it if my views are ignored.
If it helps you feel better to get things off your chest, then why not? So go let it out. You will likely help more people than you realise as suggested here before. If it makes it easier to use more metaphors than factual events, then why not?
But no need to call yourself crazy. Goodness knows we are each entitled to dealing with challenges in our own way. You wouldn't believe what I have been known to say to slugs in the herb garden.

Savor Dam wrote:you may recall an exchange of PMs we had several years ago, long before your illness. You'd asked me a relatively innocuous question

*nod* of course remember that.

SD wrote:Will it be useful to others? I would think so. If you had read what you now are considering writing prior to going through the experiences, would you have gotten insights from that reading that would have helped you through the experience?

I was pretty hard to convince of many reasonable things at that time!

SD wrote:Will it be of 'morbid interest' to Watchers with no direct need to know? Probably (yes, you should consider the 'harmless but consistent cyberstalker' source of that assessment), and those who are uninterested can choose to forego reading.

I'll have you know that the "stalker" thing in your profile was freaking me out when I was going through some paranoid stuff at that time... sigh.
Ya just never know where the people you're interacting with are at.

SD wrote:Agreed that you ought not call yourself crazy. No more than the rest of us. We're all bozos on this bus.

yeahh... I am gonna say that the whole "we're all crazy!" thing... as put forward by Av and peoples elsewhere from this forum...
...I dunno, I think I was able to "play it back" to someone I love one day... a family member was going, "oh, whatever... I'm crazy..."
and I was like, "Welcome to the club!"

SD wrote:Don't fictionalize it. Keep it real.

In some ways, I think fiction is a better vessel for truth...
...kind of like poetry can express things where overly-literal descriptions fall short.
and also because of dynamics between the writer and the hearer(s).

samrw wrote:I think it will be good for you.

Y'know... I'm not sure I had considered it might be ACTUALLY good for me.
just like fake-good... like feels good in the short-run but doesn't help me in the long run.
(I think a lot of things that the "common wisdom" of our day says are good for us really aren't.)

Kizza wrote:You wouldn't believe what I have been known to say to slugs in the herb garden.

This made me smile.
Are the slugs the enemy?

btw, peoples, I -have- thought of two or three legit ways telling whatever I felt like could go really wrong.
So I guess my answer to "why not?" is "unintended consequences!"

Yes, slugs are the enemy. Apparently I've been known to call them "little bastards".... But a visit to the garden centre help me sort that issue out! I got 'em on their toes now.

Kizza wrote:I am a "blow in" here, so I totally get it if my views are ignored.

We ignore everybody here without favour.

Seriously though, length of tenure is not a deciding factor on the Watch, only participation.

Linna Heartlistener wrote:So I guess my answer to "why not?" is "unintended consequences!"

Problem with those is you don't even know if they exist until it's too late. At least they'll be unintended.

--A

As I'm overtly squeamish about the anatomy of living tissue, more so female, (and yet I could watch an autopsy without batting an eye), I wouldn't be very interested in this thread really. So perhaps fictionalizing the events would be the easier option to take.
Better still, science-fictionalize with a generous sprinkling of comedy would work for me. (Cpt. Jean-Baptiste Bacardi of the starship USS Prognosis). Although on second thoughts, as this isn't about me perhaps leave out the comedy.

Anyway I voted Yes, with fiction.

Hahaha Lazy

Linna ... Savor Dam is a stalker Wow thats a plot twist I didnt see coming.

And Linna sweets .. talking through trauma and pain is almost always good for the ... please excuse this term .. the victim . I know .. please superimpose the more appropriate term.

Linna you are well loved and highly regarded here .. no one will or should judge anything you feel inclined to share. I think we can declare this your safe space to do with as you please. I think most people have demonstrated their encouragement and support for you to do whatever it is you feel you need to.

Cancer touches so many lives these days .. as ugh .. victims Cant for the life of me think of the appropriate word here ... family of cancer sufferers and their friends.

So proceed or dont .. speak in metaphors or analogy .. fictionalise or find humourous ways to express what you need to ... you are the Master and Commander of this thread.

In law school I met a lady who was a Holocaust survivor. She was in her 60s I think and we became fast friends. She for the FIRST time in her life .. found being at Uni her first opportunity to talk. Her mother and her elder sister survived and they NEVER spoke of what theyd shared in Auschwitz and Dachau. It was the most healing period of her life.

Talking ... well fuck just verbalising is a way of processing an experience like that. So dear one ... you share whatever or what little you feel to. You are loved ..

..... even if you HAVE to make it all about god .. I will promise not to poo poo any god feelings at all ..

And thats saying something lol Cos you know what I think about all that

I personally hate talking about health issues, but I can absolutely understand how it would be cathartic.

Skyweir wrote: In law school I met a lady who was a Holocaust survivor. She was in her 60s I think and we became fast friends. She for the FIRST time in her life .. found being at Uni her first opportunity to talk. Her mother and her elder sister survived and they NEVER spoke of what theyd shared in Auschwitz and Dachau. It was the most healing period of her life.

That was THE taboo subject in my family. We had a lot of taboo subjects. It wasn't healthy. Talking is healthy.

Soooo nice to see you here. Agreed it is healthy.

I raised two biological sons and two blow ins .. and my I intentionally orchestrated opportunities to communicate.

My boys were prone to solving conflict physically with their fists .. and we would sit down and talk through issues they had.

I wanted them to be comfortable with communicating their frustrations, their anger and talking themselves down. I gave them opportunities to consider their various issue from the POV of the other. They were always hard conversations .. as conflict is never pleasant .. but we would sit together and unpack the perceptions, we would ultimately reach a remedy .. often involving apology and forgiveness, sometimes more may be required.

But I taught all the kids the value of communication. And how they can use communication effectively to achieve their ambitions.

As a result I have kids that can communicate, that can rationalise, can negotiate, can switch positions with an adversary, are expressive, are fair minded and intelligent humans.

Thats from talking.

Lazy Luke wrote:As I'm overtly squeamish about the anatomy of living tissue, more so female, (and yet I could watch an autopsy without batting an eye)

Good on ya, Luke...
I, too, have been concerned about this very thing.

I actually did end up in the situation where I was on the phone with someone, say a male friend of ours we'd kept up with from our student days...
...and a typical conversation topic at that time was my latest treatments or scans...
...And when asked a question, I'd be realizing, "huh, what do I tell? / how do I talk about this?" because, like modesty.

I wasn't thinking of talking about the physical treatment / surgeries aspects of the experience in anatomical detail... nah.
More about the experience of being told some unexpected news that involved my own mortality... like being confronted with, "you have something you might die of."
(clearly, not in most people's "comfort zone"!)
...and like, it's weird because there's all these different factors that could make it more or less likely that I'd live and some would be my own active decisions, and decisions that others make, and lots of things I didn't have a direct control over.

I was thinking of talking more about some of the wacky things my mind did when confronted with this huge weight... me getting unhinged here and there...
...and also how I interfaced with people when I was in that state.

Lazy wrote:Better still, science-fictionalize with a generous sprinkling of comedy would work for me.

This might not happen, but... I love the vision for it... YES, comedy.
Comedy is very important, especially for people caught up in dealing with traumatic circumstances together!

sky wrote:please excuse this term .. the victim . I know .. please superimpose the more appropriate term.

love ya for knowing I wouldn't want that term...

sky wrote:...even if you HAVE to make it all about god .. I will promise not to poo poo any god feelings at all ..

you know it! thank you.
lol, that's the puke face? and green.

Sorus wrote:I personally hate talking about health issues, but I can absolutely understand how it would be cathartic.

Yeahhhhh... the sense that people felt they needed to get updates from me on health stuff when I was going through that...
I mean, I can see why it would seem polite.

I had to have a lot of phone conversations in that time, and with some of them I was just exasperated.
One weird thing I discovered was that a way of ending a phone conversation is to ask, "Was there anything else?"
So if you tell someone YOU have to go, they frequently remember "one more thing," but if you explicitly ask THEM if they have anything else to say, they realize they're taking up your time and wrap things up quickly.
It still is a kinda rude; I don't recommended it for a lot, but... it was an escape valve. or something.

Also, that is quite a taboo subject to have.

skyweir wrote:They were always hard conversations .. as conflict is never pleasant .. but we would sit together and unpack the perceptions, we would ultimately reach a remedy .. often involving apology and forgiveness, sometimes more may be required.

Conflict never pleasant? YES. and good on ya, sky!

Linna Heartlistener wrote:
I was thinking of talking more about some of the wacky things my mind did when confronted with this huge weight... me getting unhinged here and there...
...and also how I interfaced with people when I was in that state.

Concerning the subject matter of this thread, how did you feel on seeing the news of Margot Kidder's death (last Sunday) at the age of 69. A sign perhaps, that you are on the right path?

Lazy Luke wrote:Concerning the subject matter of this thread, how did you feel on seeing the news of Margot Kidder's death (last Sunday) at the age of 69. A sign perhaps, that you are on the right path?

Well, there are some topics I know things about...
...but on subjects that involve pop culture, entertainment, etc., it's often safe to assume I'm pretty ignorant.
So I hadn't really thought anything!

I see, now, that...

wikipedia wrote:...in 1996, she had a highly publicized manic episode and nervous breakdown.

Well, in a book that's shaped a lot of my thinking on this years ago, "The Masks of Melancholy," I first read how someone in the grip of a manic episode can carve a path that bursts through the usual social barriers, and can leave a wake of destruction behind. :-/
So that's a thought.

I also am convinced there is no humiliation that can't be recovered from.
A person can come back up from the depths.
Nervous breakdowns... I wish I could find a source I'd read... which spoke of Abraham Lincoln and other famous people being brought very low (nervous breakdowns were in the list of problems) before accomplishing great things.

There was definitely a day... well before the cancer thing... when I was asking my husband, "do you think I might be bipolar?"
So we looked through a list of characteristics, and concluded, "maybe be something similar, but it's not in that category."
And then he turned to me & said, "That's the same thing we said the last time we had this conversation."

As far as a sign? ...well, while I -DO- think that all the events of the world are being orchestrated with an amazing artistry and not coincidental...
...how to discern to "read" that story... well, I expect it to often be pretty inscrutable, at least before some passage of time.

------------------------------------------------

Also... I just caught myself referencing the Holocaust in my post without having the word "Holocaust" in the post ...and the context was we were talking about social taboos...
...so I'm going to re-phrase:

Sorus wrote:That was THE taboo subject in my family. We had a lot of taboo subjects. It wasn't healthy. Talking is healthy.

The Holocaust? Now, that is quite a taboo subject to have.

Linna Heartlistener wrote:
Also... I just caught myself referencing the Holocaust in my post without having the word "Holocaust" in the post ...and the context was we were talking about social taboos...
...so I'm going to re-phrase:

Sorus wrote:That was THE taboo subject in my family. We had a lot of taboo subjects. It wasn't healthy. Talking is healthy.

The Holocaust? Now, that is quite a taboo subject to have.

Eh, don't want to derail your thread. That side of my family is Jewish. Bad things happened. We don't talk about the bad things.

I feel it is better to talk about the bad things, even if they are painful. At this point, no one left alive remembers those who died, and they are lost to history. It's bound to happen eventually, but that was only a few generations ago.

Linna Heartlistener wrote:..."you have something you might die of."

Yeah, we all do...it's called "Life."

Sorus wrote:...but that was only a few generations ago.

Not a bad run in my opinion...my family history only goes back a max of 2 generations, and even that is patchy.

--A

Linna Heartlistener wrote:
I was thinking of talking more about some of the wacky things my mind did when confronted with this huge weight... me getting unhinged here and there...
...and also how I interfaced with people when I was in that state.

That's definitely interesting, especially if you compare it to your current perspective.

Perspective is always something I struggle with, but I'm getting better at it.