2020 Vice-Presidential Debate

[sgt.null]

Most accusations of its involvement in violence at protests around the country have proven unfounded. After looking into violence in Washington, D.C., for example, the FBI found "no intelligence indicating antifa involvement/presence."

As author Mark Bray puts it, "The vast majority of anti-fascist organizing is nonviolent. But their willingness to physically defend themselves and others from white supremacist violence, and preemptively shut down fascist organizing efforts before they turn deadly, distinguishes them from liberal anti-racists."

Antifa's association with violence has led to its portrayal as disruptive and lawless. That has allowed conservative talking heads to paint it as a civil threat, in an attempt to counter violent images of the alt-right. [link]

Antifa is just a distraction from the real, documented, wide-spread, uncontained, and tolerated violence of the right.

So of course you have proof that the rioting was done by right wingers? The arson and looting?

[Avatar]

It's pretty established already that both right wing and left wing "extremists" have been arrested and charged with various acts of protest related violence, property damage and theft.

Both. And yes, some of the arson and looting was done by them, and apparently some of the incitement as well.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/05/3 ... win-cities

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/3-a ... s-2044384/

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/a ... 53662.html

However, most, were neither.

https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbre ... d96c54f748

All that said, and, I guess, simple testimony to the fact that the left are by NO means blameless anywhere, I just watched a documentary in which somebody who identified with Antifa not only flat out said that they had attended BLM protests in order to incite police into acting against protestors, by seemed confused when the journalist questioned this, saying that by definition the BLM protestors must support them (and therefore be willing to have the police incited against them), which he supported with some very confused reasoning about MLK and police beings fascists.

The more I see about them the less I like...pretty ironic that they are creating their own version of the thing they claim to oppose maybe...

As Sarge said elsewhere, violence is never a good answer, in the long term at least.

--A

[sgt.null]

Av - I have seen the light! Three alleged members of the Boogaloo boys arrested. Three out of... wait that's it? Three?

Like I said and will continue to say. The violence is on BLM, antifa and the Democrats.

[Avatar]

A lot of it is definitely on Antifa, that seems pretty clear.

But again we're devolving to "yes but they do it more"

The problem is even 1 person from the other side doing it damages the perception that the other side is solely to blame, because clearly it's not solely.

Also, pretty sure those 3 were just one example.

--A

[wayfriend]

More leftist violence.

Oh, wait ... not leftist.

Secret audio recordings detail how white supremacists seek recruits from military, police

An organization that fights for racial and social justice published secret audio recordings Thursday that uncover aspects of how one American white supremacist group seeks to recruit from the U.S. military and law enforcement and encourages its members to hatch violent plots and undertake paramilitary training to start a race war.

"We want things to accelerate, we want things to get worse in the United States," Nazzaro says in the recordings, as he interviews a potential new recruit. [link]

Georgia teen pleads guilty in plot to kill worshippers at Black church

A teenage girl who plotted to kill members of a predominantly Black church in Gainesville pleaded guilty Thursday afternoon and apologized for her actions.

Prosecutors said Pye was a follower of Dylann Roof, the man who fatally shot nine congregants at Charleston’s Emanuel AME Church in June 2015. [link]

[sgt.null]

WF - plots, plans. But were they burning and looting? Or did law enforcement catch them before that? The same law enforcement that Democrats are demanding be defended and disbanded?

[TheFallen]

What I just don't get is why both sides even begin to think that their ever so careful cherrypicking of examples in any way proves that their particular favoured side is irreproachably innocent?

It's just bizarre, this obsessional insistence upon maintaining a binary mindset... because it so obviously bears no resemblance to the actual dyed in the wool reality of things.



If this aberration now turns out to be the "go forward" default world view of the majority of US citizens post the November 3rd Clash Of Clowns (tm), then God help you all.

[sgt.null]

TF - ive posted vids of the left rioting, looting, burning. In great numbers. In many cities. So far we have seen Av post 3 arrests and some plotting and WF post some plotting.

But if you spin it hard enough the two sides are comparable?

Trump has had to condemn white supremacists over and over again. And still the kettles and says he doesn't.

https://youtu.be/9JmOSsv-KSg

But it took Don Lemon telling the Biden campaign that domestic terrorism was polling unfavorably for Joe to finally say something.

https://youtu.be/fzVc-f5g6EY

And even then he blames Trump for democrats refusing federal aid in their cities. Biden waited all summer while the rioting happened. He never spoke out against the violence while his side thought it hurt Trump more than it hurt Biden. And while Trump names names, Biden never speaks out against BLM or antifa. Thats leadership?

'Peaceful' BLM protesters calling for the murder of police.

https://youtu.be/kQrnEdjQWKI

And proving karma can be a bitch. 'Peaceful' protester catches fire from his own molotov.
https://youtu.be/LBOkfhJqDTw

[Hashi Lebwohl]

If this aberration now turns out to be the "go forward" default world view of the majority of US citizens post the November 3rd Clash Of Clowns (tm), then God help you all.

Too late--cherry-picking one or two instanes and concluding that "every one that side engages in this/supports this" is already the norm.

Actual right-wing extremism fights against the government because they think that any government is too much government. Left-wing extremists fight against the government because the current government does not use its power to implement the policies they want or because they wrongly think the current government is tryannical.

Ultimately, violence is violence and it needs to be quelled regardless of who is doing it. One way or another, after the election it will most likely be ended...and a lot of people are not gong to like it.

[sgt.null]

if Biden loses. And it is possible that it happens. I'm afraid the left will go on a rioting streak at least matching this summer.

If Trump loses. And it is possible that it happens. The right will go to work the next day.

[Gaius Octavius]

Or you will have several "Waco-level" incidents happen across the country.

[sgt.null]

Ur - Waco was a religious cult. It was not a political group. Koresh was a Jim Jones type.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

The vice-presidential debates were irrelevant.