Kevin's Watch

So I finished the First Chronicles this evening, and I enjoyed the end of the trilogy more than the beginning. General thoughts on the characters: Covenant is a dick, Hile Troy is a moron, Foamfollower, Mhoram and Bannor are husband-worthy.

I definitely enjoyed the third book more than the second, in part due to the pacing and in part due to certain characters (see above comment about Hile Troy). However, my favourite scene was Hile Troy being turned into a tree (he absolutely deserved it), possibly closely followed by anything with Foamfollower.

I think what I enjoy most of the series is the questioning over whether it's real or not and the evolution of that theme (more coherent thoughts on this require me to not have brain-ache from many hours of reading). I also learned many new words. And the ending was good. I liked that - it was in keeping with everything else in the books, which is something I've missed from some other fantasy books I've read recently. When my brain stops aching, I shall undoubtedly have the first book of the Second Chronicles thrust into my hands.

Welcome, and congratulations! SRD (in any series) is not exactly light reading. I personally like 2nd Chronicles better than the first, so once you have it "thrust into {your} hands", I think you will be quickly hooked.

I agree with your assessments of the characters.

I can't argue with loving TPTP most. But I do love TIW, too. Amok is too cool for words. And so many others. Caerroil Wildwood was brief, but wow. Again, Mhoram.

But yeah, TPTP is a powerful book. Not just the flashy kind. The Spoiled Plains is an extraordinary chapter.

Glad you enjoyed. Did Forestall include Gilden Fire in your read?

The Second Chronicles will have you depressed, like you just lost a friend. Those books put the reader through the ringer. They are great and a phenomenal accomplishment in terms of the writing. But they are brutal. You'll look back at the First Chronicles in a wistful way after you finish them. Actually, after you finish The Wounded Land.

"Covenant is a dick".

Yes. However the key to really understanding the First Chronicles is to work out why Covenant is a dick, why he thinks he kind of has to be a dick, and how in the end he transcends his dickness.

Menolly wrote:Glad you enjoyed. Did Forestall include Gilden Fire in your read?

Yes, he did. I'm very grateful to have a guide so well-versed in the Land for my reading.

Horrim Carabal wrote:The Second Chronicles will have you depressed, like you just lost a friend. Those books put the reader through the ringer. They are great and a phenomenal accomplishment in terms of the writing. But they are brutal. You'll look back at the First Chronicles in a wistful way after you finish them. Actually, after you finish The Wounded Land.

Ooo yay! I like books that put the reader through the wringer. I should, however, read some of the other books I have lying around first

awesomeelves wrote:

Menolly wrote:Glad you enjoyed. Did Forestall include Gilden Fire in your read?

Yes, he did.

It was however at the end of TIW, rather than at the appropriate point in the book; so as not to break the continuity of the perspective, as per SRD's original intention.

Forestal wrote:

awesomeelves wrote:

Menolly wrote:Glad you enjoyed. Did Forestall include Gilden Fire in your read?

Yes, he did.

It was however at the end of TIW, rather than at the appropriate point in the book; so as not to break the continuity of the perspective, as per SRD's original intention.

That's probably for the best the first time around reading it. I recall that I didn't read Gilden-Fire the first time until after I had finished both the First Chronicles and the Second Chronicles. In subsequent readings, I read GF right after finishing The Illearth War chapter 8 ("Lord Kevin's Lament").

Horrim Carabal wrote:The Second Chronicles will have you depressed, like you just lost a friend. Those books put the reader through the ringer. They are great and a phenomenal accomplishment in terms of the writing. But they are brutal. You'll look back at the First Chronicles in a wistful way after you finish them. Actually, after you finish The Wounded Land.

Truth.

The Illearth War continues to be my Favorite of the First Chronicles for many reasons not the least of which for me was the Chapter "Tull's tale" and the gut wrenching story of the journey to the Grieve. As many times as I have read these books, it still chokes me up to read that chapter.

DrPaul wrote:"Covenant is a dick".

Yes. However the key to really understanding the First Chronicles is to work out why Covenant is a dick, why he thinks he kind of has to be a dick, and how in the end he transcends his dickness.

There's a part in TWL where Covenant himself states that he was a total dick in the first series.

Meh. Show me the man who's never been a dick at one time or another.

True enough. But show me another rapist that everyone is willing to forgive, and considers a hero.

Fist and Faith wrote:True enough. But show me another rapist that everyone is willing to forgive, and considers a hero.

There is that odd fact too.

I'm sure that if you go into religious or ancient history, you'll find multiple examples of hero rapists... that's a dangerous rabbit hole to go down, though.

It's too bad too.
Just a slight rewrite where it's made consensual wouldn't have to have changed anything that comes later in the story.
Lena still could have gone crazily obsessed, Elena could still be born. Lena's parents could still be pissed off that TC ruined their daughter's life according to the customs of the Land (unwed childbirth).

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Just a slight rewrite where it's made consensual wouldn't have to have changed anything that comes later in the story.

Donaldson has told us that the rape was intrinsic to the story he was telling, in several ways. It would still be changed -- but the changes would be subtler.

--

I never disliked Covenant, or thought he was a dick. Even on the first read. I caught on to what he was going through, and for me it was more of a matter of watching him work through his issues. At 17, I was keenly interested in knowing how he would do that, I suppose.

Hmmm I am not going to write this very well and has great possibility of being misunderstood. So lets address the obvious. Rape is wrong and anything after this that makes you think for one second sheesh is that idiot supporting rape - get that out of your head.

Ok off to my thought when I read book.


When I read the book it was from Covenant perspective at that stage. He had accident and clearly thought he was in dream/delusion, He felt for him impossible feelings and urges that in his real/normal existence should not and did not exist. So some beautiful woman is presented to him I took it as fantasy sex - yes twisted fantasy sex but fantasy sex nonetheless. If men have dream about some woman that don't know subjecting to their agressive advances do we convict them?

Where the story becomes more damning for Covenant is he knew it was wrong and the Lena was not willing participant. But I still find that to be extension of a dream state reaction.

Before you throw stones at me - think about for a bit and try to see if it makes some degree of sense.