What happened to Hile Troy's Think Tank?

[SoulBiter]

Its a mute point now but way more positive posts were there than negative. Its like nuking Cincinnati because on the news you see that shootings occur every night and rape and burglary are on the rise.

[Fist and Faith]

It's also a moot point. �

[SoulBiter]

It's also a moot point. �

My phone doesn't like that spelling apparently.

Edit to add.... maybe mute was more applicable in this context. My phone might have done me a favor LOL.

[Fist and Faith]

Yeah, I knew it was an autocorrect.

[Zarathustra]

Oh my. Yeah… if that was common parlence recently… wow.

It wasn’t common parlance. I don’t remember anyone saying ‘go fuck a sheep.’ I do remember the child predator stuff. I’m surprised anyone would be more upset about naughty words than child rape. But this was largely between just two posters. It seems like it could have been handled with those two rather than the whole Tank. If the comments were unacceptable, I never saw anyone complain. We had two mods, why didn’t they do anything? If no warning is given then the impression is that the posts are acceptable.

[Fist and Faith]

Really, we don't need to be having these conversations any longer. But if we are, let's not pretend nobody knew how bad things were or that nobody said anything about it. All this crap was very well known. Problem was the mod, who did not attempt to insist on the least bit of civility. So things went on and on, until I eventually learned about how bad some of it was, and became a mod and put an end to the very worst of it.

"Go fuck a sheep" was Cail (to Sky) btw.

[SerScot]

Really, we don't need to be having these conversations any longer. But if we are, let's not pretend nobody knew how bad things were or that nobody said anything about it. All this crap was very well known. Problem was the mod, who did not attempt to insist on the least bit of civility. So things went on and on, until I eventually learned about how bad some of it was, and became a mod and put an end to the very worst of it.

"Go fuck a sheep" was Cail (to Sky) btw.

Yeah… there’s not much good coming from discourse on that level. I remember Cail being acerbic but not outright nasty…

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

Really, we don't need to be having these conversations any longer. But if we are, let's not pretend nobody knew how bad things were or that nobody said anything about it. All this crap was very well known. Problem was the mod, who did not attempt to insist on the least bit of civility. So things went on and on, until I eventually learned about how bad some of it was, and became a mod and put an end to the very worst of it.

"Go fuck a sheep" was Cail (to Sky) btw.

Not to pile-on Hashi (cuz on the main, I got along with him and wouldn't mind again reading his insights if he returned), but when the Mod hisself openly posts that Catholics are servants of Lucifer who are leading people into "a woke world of lies", then Houston, we have a problem.

[Zarathustra]

Not to pile-on Hashi (cuz on the main, I got along with him and wouldn't object to again reading his insights if he returned), but when the Mod hisself openly posts that Catholics are servants of Lucifer who are leading people into "a woke world of lies", then Houston, we have a problem.

Why is that a problem? We're not allowed to criticize Catholicism? You can use your church to back up political positions, but we're not allowed to say that's a "woke world of lies?" If you put your church in the line of fire by using it as a moral authority for political discussions, it's entirely fair game to criticize the church and the people who support it.

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

Not to pile-on Hashi (cuz on the main, I got along with him and wouldn't object to again reading his insights if he returned), but when the Mod hisself openly posts that Catholics are servants of Lucifer who are leading people into "a woke world of lies", then Houston, we have a problem.

[…]

… You can use your church to back up political positions, but we're not allowed to say that's a "woke world of lies?" …

Bingo. I'm allowed to exist, and you're not allowed to demonize me. You can't call us Servants of Lucifer any more than you can call Jews a Synagogue of Satan.

That's exactly how Anti-AntiCatholicism works.

[Zarathustra]

Wos, I can be anti-Catholic if I want (and I do). If I think supporting the Catholic Church is evil (and I do), I can say so. It’s a belief system. No belief system is beyond criticism. You don’t cease existing just because I criticize your beliefs.

You have called Republicans ‘fascist’ on numerous occasions. Is that not demonizing them? Don’t they have a right to exist? You’re not in a category where you get to criticize others and they can’t criticize you.

[Avatar]

"A woke world of lies" is not a criticism, it's an insult.

--A

[Zarathustra]

I think all religion is a collection of myths and lies. Are we no longer allowed to say that on the Watch? Is atheism no longer allowed to be expressed?

[Fist and Faith]

Who said you're not allowed to say it? He said it's an insult, not a criticism. And if atheism is out, I'll be booted with the rest of you.

[Zarathustra]

I thought he was saying that insults are not allowed, and therefore, it is not allowed to say that we think that the Catholic Church is a woke world of lies, because it offends Wos.

I was raised as a fundamentalist, non-denominational protestant. Luckily, I escaped that belief system. But I was taught that the pope is the antichrist, and the members of the Catholic Church are literally aiding and supporting Satan. If I decided to convert back to this religious belief, is Wos saying that this is not allowed to be expressed? Saying that the pope is the antichrist is just as legitimate of a religious belief as saying that the pope is God’s spokesperson. If a view can be expressed, so can the opposite view. But Wos seems to think he’s in a protected class.

[Fist and Faith]

Wos can think that all he likes. He doesn't decide what can and can't be said at the watch, or whether or not atheism is allowed.

[Avatar]

So we've gone from "I'm allowed to legitimately criticise something" to "I'm allowed to insult people?"

I'm pretty sure we frown on insulting fellow Watchers. And while we've been piss-poor at abiding by it in the past, I hope that we are getting better.

And while I'm all in favour of criticism, I'm not such a big fan of trying somebody for things somebody else did.

Levelling insults at people because of something a group, or a member of a group, they belong to did isn't particularly critical. (Or nice.)

And while I may disagree with pretty much everything Wos believes in, and while I may abhor things done by the institution to which he belongs, and some of the officials, members are functionaries thereof, I don't really remember him going around telling us we're evil because terrible things have been done by people who do not believe in god., or that we're stupid for not doing so.

Nor that he looks forward to the day that we inevitably burn in hell, despite probably actually believing something like that. (Our eventual damnation that is, not the enjoying part. (Although, who knows? ))

(And if he has, this counts for him too...maybe I missed it. )

(And wouldn't calling the pope the antichrist be sorta a religious sentiment? )

(This is all Diamonddraughtaholic's fault...I'll be back soon. Be good to each other. And if you can't be good, at least be decent.)

--A

[Fist and Faith]

I have a couple problems with that quote of hashi's. First, I don't believe in Lucifer. Therefore, I don't believe anyone is his servant. Second, I've been called "woke" and told I'm virtue signaling when I've done nothing other than disagree with a conservative. There is a difference. But they are the things some conservatives have said, and I haven't heard it coming from non-conservatives. Not to say liberals don't have their things, which are thrown around as ... literally.[/list]

[Savor Dam]

Of the many abuses of Woz, what stuck most in my craw was “Stay in your corner and whisper your religious ideologies to yourself. The adults are speaking.� The dripping condescension is a principal reason, along with the source being a mod of the forum in question.

That Wos takes a "Not to pile-on Hashi" stance upthread...well, "you're a better man than I am, Gunga Din..."

[Zarathustra]

So we've gone from "I'm allowed to legitimately criticise something" to "I'm allowed to insult people?"

We merely disagree on whether it's an insult. The most negative definition of 'woke' I could find from Merriam Webster was this:

politically liberal (as in matters of racial and social justice) especially in a way that is considered unreasonable or extreme


Is that really insulting? Or just criticism? I feel that we've already established that "lie" isn't insulting, it's just part of what atheists believe about religion in general. So I disagree that there was any problem in the original statement.

And while I'm all in favour of criticism, I'm not such a big fan of trying somebody for things somebody else did.

Wos has never uttered a single word against the Catholic Church's handling of the child predators in its midst. Instead, he has used child predators or those who protected child predators as moral authorities in his posts, which is what he was criticized for. So no one is trying him for things somebody else did. He is free to distance himself from their crimes by condemning them, but he does the opposite; he venerates them. That's a legitimate reason for criticism . . . if I venerated members of the KKK, I would expect the same.

(And wouldn't calling the pope the antichrist be sorta a religious sentiment? )

Yes, that was my point. It's a legitimate religious position to take, as much as any other religious position.