Series That Never End

[peter]

The other day I picked up a copy of Wizards First Rule by Terry Goodkind.

Not TLOTR, that's for sure, but an okay little read and the sort of soft fantasy I like sometimes when I'm not in the mood for anything too challenging.

I noticed that it was the first book in the Sword of Truth series, and seeing as I was actually buying the thing (albeit second hand) it was only the fact that it was number 1 that made me decide to spring the cash. I never buy a fantasy book unless it's the first in a series (or a standalone): it's just a self imposed rule that stops me from finishing up with scores of books at home that aren't much good to me.

So anyway, the book met the criteria, I started reading it and thought, "Yes - this works. I'll try to get some more."

A few days later I found a second book from the same series, but this had no number telling you what position it was in terms of reading order. How frikkin annoying, but on looking inside, I saw that there had been five books released since the first book, which as I say, I was by now reading.

Okay, so it was book six... maybe? Too far ahead for me to bung for it (series that long have a habit of descending into shit long before book seven) and so I let it go.

Later on, I decided to have a look to see just how many books there were in the series.

Twenty four! (Or was it 28 - I forget.)

This isn't a series - it's a soap opera! It basically never ends! Screw that! The whole point of a story is (you remember), 'Beginning - middle - end!' Get that last one? End!

There are a few series I've come across like this - Game of Thrones, Wheel of Time, and others - and they annoy me. I'm okay with series that have many books, each of which are fairly standalone, but if the story is just used to hook you in and never let you go, then I want none of it. I'm hoping - really hoping - that the Sword of Truth will turn out to be the self-contained kind but time will tell.

[Menolly]

Have you read McCaffrey’s Pern and Harper Hall series?

[Avatar]

Uh, that series never ends either. (Anyway, I preferred the Crystal Singer (And Lyon's Pride) series.

Anyway, Wheel of Time did end. 14 door-stoppers, but it ended. (And a few in the middle were terrible.)

I'm resigned to GoT never ending, and starting to worry about Rothfuss' Name of the Wind (and there's only 3 of those!) (Damn you @[Syl]. )

Feist's "Midekemia" books are also pretty never-ending, but they never got really bad. (And they do seem to have ended.) A couple dubious ones to be fair though.

The Brooks / Goodkind stuff though...well I never even start those. I did read the first three Shannara books, but very long ago and never again. "Cashgrab" sorta series get old really fast.

--A

[Fist and Faith]

*cough cough*Malazan*cough*

[peter]

Didn't mention Malazan because a) I hadn't read it and b) I've heard it spoken of well in these pages.

Generally I'm liking a series to do its thing in about three or four books. I don't have a problem with series like Shannara where the stories are either pretty self contained or at least book-ended into three book units, but that's where it ends for me.

(In defence of Shannara, I think the first three books were actually OK in a LOTR style homage (imitation being the highest form of flattery and all that. I once did a post here of an imagined cage-fight between Tolkien and Brooks. Man, I loved that post but could somehow never find it again. Damn search function! )

[[Syl]]

Uh, yeah, Goodkind (RIP, I guess) starts off as fairly enjoyable derivative stuff if you don't read it too closely. But every book gets worse and worse by going deeper into the problems with his writing, going in exactly the opposite direction you want him to go as a writer. But you get invested, so... A couple books later and he finishes what started off as the series (damned if I can remember... something about 'war wizards' that can't eat meat and blowing up towers), but they keep going (new area of the map unlocked kind of thing). And it turns into the worst libertarian wet dream slog. I finished Pillars of the Fallen, felt unclean, and never went back to it.

I really liked the early Feist books, but yeah, after Silverthorn he basically just plugged them out. I kept up for a bit but never gave a damn about Midkemia once Pug removes himself from the picture.

L.E. Modesitte's Change books went on forever (may still be?). But once the story moved down another generation I was pretty bored. If you think Martin chews the scenery...

[Avatar]

I guess Malazan is a legit entry, since they're still going with 25 published books and more to come. Like (and even more so than) (most of) Feists (Pug does actually get involved again @[Syl] and (major major spoiler)

Spoiler

eventually dies in the last book

) they're retaining their quality on the whole and I'm still interested in learning more about the world and characters. It doesn't feel like they're just stamping them out.

--A

[[Syl]]

It's been a long time so I can't remember very well, but it seemed to me like it went from something to say with cool world building to 'now this thing happened and we have to deal with it.'

[Damelon]

Anyway, Wheel of Time did end. 14 door-stoppers, but it ended. (And a few in the middle were terrible.)

It ended, but not by Robert Jordan's hand. I feel bad being a little snarky about it, but he was in no rush to finish it up.

That kind of turned me off towards the genre. To me it was pushed by the publishers to get as much coin as they could out of the fans. Now, I won't consider purchasing a book until the series is finished. I did make an exception and buy the first Rothfuss book, but not the second. I won't consider it until the last book is published. If he gets around to finishing it, fine, if not also fine.

[Avatar]

It's been a long time so I can't remember very well, but it seemed to me like it went from something to say with cool world building to 'now this thing happened and we have to deal with it.'

I mean, can't really disagree with that, but I didn't see it necessarily as a bad thing, albeit maybe because I liked the world...sorta went from world-building to "world living" maybe.

It ended, but not by Robert Jordan's hand. I feel bad being a little snarky about it, but he was in no rush to finish it up.

I dunno if I agree. I've always thought (and said) that after the abomination that was book 10, he realised he'd lost the plot. If you read Book 11, Knife of Dreams, the last one he wrote himself, you get the impression of him hurriedly trying to close off plot threads...in some cases, I even felt almost too hurriedly.

The question of whether book 12 should have been split into 3 books as it eventually was...well, I didn't hate them. And apparently he'd been planning like a 2,500 page finale, so...

--A

[Menolly]

Uh, that series never ends either. (Anyway, I preferred the Crystal Singer (And Lyon's Pride) series.

Precisely

[peter]

There seems to be two distinct kinds of never-ending series; the ones that never end because the author is just so damned slow (Rothfuss?) and those who just keep mining the same vein, no matter how thin the produce therefrom becomes.

The latter is the worst kind of laziness in a writer and I'm astonished that anyone who would consider themselves an artist in any sense of the word would indulge in it.

There is however a third kind series that never ends - the one where for whatever reason the author is unable to finish it. The saddest example of this in my opinion is the failure of J V Jones to finish her Sword of Shadows series. Some kind of serious event in her life - psychological, familial, other....we know not what - has stopped the finishing of the series with just one book remaining.

But even in the absence of the final denouement, the series is so, so good that I would not have missed it for the world. This is the one exception I would make to my desire only to read series that are completed. I live in hope that J V will ultimately be able to resume her writing career, but have my doubts. More importantly however, I hope that she overcomes whatever the problems are that have asailed her. Her life is more important than my desire to see her series finished.

[Fist and Faith]

The ten books of The Malazan Book off the Fallen is one hugger complete story. It's written by Steven Erickson. He is an extraordinary writer.

He and a friend, Ian C. Esslemont, created the world together while playing D&D. In his Malazan Empire books, ICE explores some of the characters, races, and events in more depth than Erickson does in the Fallen. Generally speaking, they are the characters, races, and events that he originated. Because of one specific event in his Return of the Crimson Guard, it is more vital to the Fallen, and I pretty much consider it an eleventh. It is also the book where, in my opinion, he comes closest to Erickson's level. Probably no one considers him to be as good a writer, although that only means his books only range from very good to great, rather than extraordinary. But, though opinions vary, I think RotCG is very nearly the same level.

[Avatar]

Uh, that series never ends either. (Anyway, I preferred the Crystal Singer (And Lyon's Pride) series.

Precisely

LOL, touché.

--A

[peter]

The ten books of The Malazan Book off the Fallen is one hugger complete story. It's written by Steven Erickson. He is an extraordinary writer.

He and a friend, Ian C. Esslemont, created the world together while playing D&D. In his Malazan Empire books, ICE explores some of the characters, races, and events in more depth than Erickson does in the Fallen. Generally speaking, they are the characters, races, and events that he originated. Because of one specific event in his Return of the Crimson Guard, it is more vital to the Fallen, and I pretty much consider it an eleventh. It is also the book where, in my opinion, he comes closest to Erickson's level. Probably no one considers him to be as good a writer, although that only means his books only range from very good to great, rather than extraordinary. But, though opinions vary, I think RotCG is very nearly the same level.

You sell it well Fist!

Tell me - where should I start then... with the Fallen series or with this other guy's works?

If you were starting afresh tomorrow, how would you tackle it? What order?

[Fist and Faith]

Opinions vary on that, too. I just recommend the ten Fallen in order, inserting Return of the Crimson Guard between books six and seven.

Book 1 is Gardens of the Moon. I was hooked early on. Many people have difficulty with it. I did not. Some say it’s not as well written as the rest. While his writing definitely improves immediately after, I didn’t have any problem with it. I think the problem is that you’re thrown into the middle of war, and the middle of the empire’s troubles, with a whole lot of characters, and a few hundred thousand years of history to catch up on. It’s lot. But there’s nothing better.

Like I said, the quality does improve right away. Every time I read 2, Deadhouse Gates, I think there can’t be a better book in the world. Then I read 3, Memories of Ice, and find myself corrected. Extraordinary books. MoI is my favorite, but every book gets votes in the “Which is your favorite” polls you see now and then.

[SoulBiter]

I may try to jump in as well. I have read zero of these

[Fist and Faith]

That’s an excellent idea.

[Avatar]

Personally I am one of those people who struggled with Gardens of the Moon.

I recommend reading Esselmont's "Night of Knives" first. It's the "prequel" to GotM and the setup it provides makes GotM make far more sense. (It's also an easier read to get into things.)

Then carry on as Fist suggested.

If you finish book 2, "Deadhouse Gates" and aren't hooked, the series probably isn't for you. (I think DHG is the best, but MoI is a damn close second...)

--A

[Fist and Faith]

Personally I am one of those people who struggled with Gardens of the Moon.

Meaning it took you four hours to read instead of three?