Kevin's Watch

Do you think that Angus can ever be forgiven for what he did to Morn?

It seems this has been discussed in a zillion threads here--of course not! Now don't start sounding like Zeph! To the unaffected party it is not forgivable-only Morn has the power to forgive-and after the 2nd time-why should she?

I think there's a distinction between forgiveness and recognition. I don't think that Morn could ever forgive Angus for what he did to her. I doubt if she could ever look him in the face without remembering things better not talked about. But I think she was able to recognize that he had changed irrevocably, and that he may even be sorry, as far as he is capable, and be content to let him go. The man who did those things to her is dead, imho.

I also stated my opinion about this matter many times here and over on the TCTC forum: SRD IMHO does not want us to forgive anybody. He wants us to understand and accept; and look into ourselves and reckognize we also have plenty of dark spots deep in there.

amanibhavam wrote:SRD IMHO does not want us to forgive anybody. He wants us to understand and accept

Yes, how could he have such great characterization otherwise? In all his novels, understanding (and acceptance) is key.

You know what? It's key to life, too. (In my sententious opinion)

Grok,

birdandbear wrote:I think there's a distinction between forgiveness and recognition. I don't think that Morn could ever forgive Angus for what he did to her. I doubt if she could ever look him in the face without remembering things better not talked about. But I think she was able to recognize that he had changed irrevocably, and that he may even be sorry, as far as he is capable, and be content to let him go. The man who did those things to her is dead, imho.

Excellent post b&b! I agree with just about everything you said.

i think birdandbear summed everything up pretty well, and IMO i think angus could be described as one of the good guys, admitedly what he did to morn was unexcusable, but he was very messed up after his mother and the crib, and he was just lashing out in the only way he knew how. when it comes down to it in the end he makes the right decisions to try and do the right thing, and even follows morns command. but no, he cant be forgiven for what he did, what he did was incredibly evil, and lets not forget he sold 28 people to the amnion. in fact he's a pretty evil and cruel bastard, but he changes, and learns to do the right thing. there's nothing he could do which would allow him to redeem himself...

If we couldn't redeem and forgive ourselves, or be forgiven, we'd be stuck on that path we're supposed to be following upward. It would be like being chained to our past, not allowed to improve. I'm sure that's not what is intended for us.

b&b wrote:The man who did those things to her is dead,

birdandbear wrote:

You are truly the best

danlo wrote:It seems this has been discussed in a zillion threads here

And yet we don't even have a hundred threads... let alone even 5 that discuss this

danlo wrote:Now don't start sounding like Zeph!

This is the biggest insult I have ever come across... We are enemies still tomorrow.

One thing I'll have to say about SRD's work is that so far, everything I've read of his has an emotional intensity to it that I've not read in other stories, save for maybe the Ender books by Orson Scott Card. SRD's work is exhausting. Everytime I turn through a few chapters, I feel taking a nap.

Anyway, forgiveness I think is possible, and if Angus had really changed and to a degree, repented for his sins, I believe Morn would be in her ethical rights to forgive him, though she doesn't really have to. I think she did forgive him in her own subtle way, but...she didn't forget. There is a difference between forgiving and forgetting. You can forgive someone, but that doesn't mean you're going to trust them or forget whatever wrong they did. I mean, how could you?

Now, do I personally think Angus should be forgiven? Hmm...yes. Not only because of his changed personality, but also he was punished quite a bit for his crimes, especially in the scene from A Dark and Hungry God Arises, where Milos mentions "that foul tongue" of Angus' and what he wanted him to do. *SHUDDER* I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

-Dutch
www.mistythemouse.com