Does death give life meaning?
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:04 am
I heard this several times... And I was wondering what you thought... What life be meaningless without death?
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Does death give life meaning?
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:56 am
Everything we do is done in the shadow of death. Consciously or not, everything is done with it in mind. Recklessness is in the face of death, and patience is in defiance of it. We would be entirely different, as individuals and as a species, without death looming over us.
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:06 pm
No; life gives death meaning.
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:28 pm
Without death, there would be no life - only existence.
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:30 pm
Well spoken Fist.
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:31 pm
Oops. Accidental double post. Please ignore.
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:32 pm
Very well said.Fist and Faith wrote:Everything we do is done in the shadow of death. Consciously or not, everything is done with it in mind. Recklessness is in the face of death, and patience is in defiance of it. We would be entirely different, as individuals and as a species, without death looming over us.
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:50 pm
Life has no ultimate meaning.
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:48 pm
(next thing ya kno they'll be quoting Sarte in here! 
)
)Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:27 pm
heh Thanks folks. Wolverine said it, though I don't have the exact quote in front of me. 
Impossible to deny, eh?
And danlo, who would you prefer? Ah, if only Zindell had anything to say about the meaning of life!
Impossible to deny, eh?And danlo, who would you prefer? Ah, if only Zindell had anything to say about the meaning of life!
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:14 am
Zindell might say something like this,
All rules and boundaries must someday be broken. How else can we go beyond ourselves? A thallow chick must break out of his egg, but this does not mean that the shell is without value.
All rules and boundaries must someday be broken. How else can we go beyond ourselves? A thallow chick must break out of his egg, but this does not mean that the shell is without value.
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:17 am
Yeah, he might say that. Or - he might say something like this,
The secret of life is life: It goes on and on, and that's all there is.
Or this,
There was no secret; there was only the crushing bondage of being, and finally when it was time to be no more, nothingness.
Or even this,
-Oh, ho, listen, Man, and we'll tell you everything! Do you hear the waves whispering the secret? We know you know, Man. The secret of life is just sheer joy, and joy is everywhere. Joy is what we were made for. It is in the rush of the nighttime surf and in the beach rocks and in the salt and the air and in the water we breathe and deep, deep within the blood. And the sifting ocean sands and the wriggling silverfish and the hooded greens of the shallows and the purple deeps and in the oyster's crusty shell and the pink reefs and even in the muck of the ocean's floor, joy, joy, joy!
-No, life is pain, I know. There's a poem; I remember some of it: "We're born in our mother's pain and perish in our own."
And what would Rorschach say? (The comic character, not the rl person)
Stood in firelight, sweltering. Blood stain on chest like map of violent new continent. Felt cleansed. Felt dark planet turn under my feet and knew what cats know that makes them scream like babies in night. Looked at sky through smoke heavy with human fat and God was not there. The cold, suffocating dark goes on forever, and we are alone. Live our lives, lacking anything better to do. Devise reason later. Born from oblivion, bear children, hellbound as ourselves, go into oblivion. There is nothing else. Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It's us. Only us. Streets stank of fire. The void breathed hard on my heart, turning its illusions to ice, shattering them. Was reborn then, free to scrawl own design on this morally blank world. Was Rorschach.
The secret of life is life: It goes on and on, and that's all there is.
Or this,
There was no secret; there was only the crushing bondage of being, and finally when it was time to be no more, nothingness.
Or even this,
-Oh, ho, listen, Man, and we'll tell you everything! Do you hear the waves whispering the secret? We know you know, Man. The secret of life is just sheer joy, and joy is everywhere. Joy is what we were made for. It is in the rush of the nighttime surf and in the beach rocks and in the salt and the air and in the water we breathe and deep, deep within the blood. And the sifting ocean sands and the wriggling silverfish and the hooded greens of the shallows and the purple deeps and in the oyster's crusty shell and the pink reefs and even in the muck of the ocean's floor, joy, joy, joy!
-No, life is pain, I know. There's a poem; I remember some of it: "We're born in our mother's pain and perish in our own."
And what would Rorschach say? (The comic character, not the rl person)
Stood in firelight, sweltering. Blood stain on chest like map of violent new continent. Felt cleansed. Felt dark planet turn under my feet and knew what cats know that makes them scream like babies in night. Looked at sky through smoke heavy with human fat and God was not there. The cold, suffocating dark goes on forever, and we are alone. Live our lives, lacking anything better to do. Devise reason later. Born from oblivion, bear children, hellbound as ourselves, go into oblivion. There is nothing else. Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It's us. Only us. Streets stank of fire. The void breathed hard on my heart, turning its illusions to ice, shattering them. Was reborn then, free to scrawl own design on this morally blank world. Was Rorschach.
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:06 am
It's not the destination (death) that matters - it's the journey. But what's a journey without a destination? Just aimless wandering...
(I think our Aussie friends would call that a "walkabout" <grin>)
(I think our Aussie friends would call that a "walkabout" <grin>)
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:12 am
Vida Única
¡Alégrate en extremo, oh rey Tecayehuatzin,
valuador de joyeles florecientes!
¿Acaso una vez más vendremos a vivir?
Tu corazón lo sabe así:
¡Sólo una vez venimos a la vida!
Xayacamachan 1510 A.D.
Unique Life
Be as happy as you can, oh king Tecayehyatzin
You who appreciates the jewels that flourish!
Will we live again?
Your heart knows this:
We only live once!
Xayacamachan 1510 A.D.
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:16 am
Hey Romeo, that's pretty close to what some guy on The Courtship of Eddie's Father said:
Life is not the conclusion. Life is the road.
Life is not the conclusion. Life is the road.
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:21 am
I think whatever exactly happens to us after death would say a lot about the nature of the universe. If we die and nothing happens after we die and we just decompose and there's no afterlife, then perhaps that means the universe was not a premeditated creation but simply it just "happened".
I mean, if we die and nothing happens, then why would some Godlike being have created a scenario like that in the first place? To be an A-hole? Why would he feed us a few drops of awareness, and then cut off the supply at death? It's like taking an abandoned baby bird, feeding it from one of those droppers, and then just abruptly stopping and walking away to let it die.
I mean, if we die and nothing happens, then why would some Godlike being have created a scenario like that in the first place? To be an A-hole? Why would he feed us a few drops of awareness, and then cut off the supply at death? It's like taking an abandoned baby bird, feeding it from one of those droppers, and then just abruptly stopping and walking away to let it die.
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:46 am
Only partially relevant, but...
Gene Wolfe wrote: A man's life is indeed short, ending in death. If it were long, his days would be of small value. If there were no death, of none. Let him fill each day with honor and joy. Let him not condemn himself or another, for he does not know the laws of his existence or theirs. If he sleeps in death, let him sleep. If while sleeping he should meet a god, he must let the god decide how well or ill he lived.
The god he meets must rule upon a man's life, never the man himself
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:18 am
I wouldn't put too much stock in what Eddie's father said - he got so frustrated at not having an wife that he turned green and started smashing things.
Foul - What if humans aren't God's children? Then our deaths wouldn't be any more significant than the death of a bug. What if God's children are the dolphins, and their level of sentience and consciousness is much higher than we could ever imagine? We would be to them like the dinosaurs were to us - just another evolutionary roadblock to them returing to their Garden of Eden (dry land). Watch out for that next comet! Ancient man could have disovered some lost dolphin text, and thought that when it said God made man in his (ahem - or her <grin>) image, it was talking about *them*. Maybe God is really a big fish with legs. (blasphemy not intended - just whimsical supposition - this IS a fantasy site, after all)
Foul - What if humans aren't God's children? Then our deaths wouldn't be any more significant than the death of a bug. What if God's children are the dolphins, and their level of sentience and consciousness is much higher than we could ever imagine? We would be to them like the dinosaurs were to us - just another evolutionary roadblock to them returing to their Garden of Eden (dry land). Watch out for that next comet!
Ancient man could have disovered some lost dolphin text, and thought that when it said God made man in his (ahem - or her <grin>) image, it was talking about *them*. Maybe God is really a big fish with legs. (blasphemy not intended - just whimsical supposition - this IS a fantasy site, after all)Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:25 pm
What do you think would happen if humans had a way to keep themselves from dying? Become immortal? How would our every day actions be affected.
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:25 pm
I think it would get even more crowded in Supermarkets...
How could death give life a meaning?
No, I think I agree with edinburghemma, more or less.
Some things can make it feel like is has a meaning though.
How could death give life a meaning?
No, I think I agree with edinburghemma, more or less.
Some things can make it feel like is has a meaning though.