Kevin's Watch

Somehow I don't really expect any replys here, because who in their right mind would want to talk about this miserable coward? Scriven in Penance (Reave the Just) looks like saint compared to this guy. The Richard the III of MN if there ever was one. Just what made him so weak and pathetic? Use this topic as a punching bag, or something-yes there's a bunch of bad guys to choose from in MN but , nobody, nobody is worse than the Armigrite.

I will respond.

I saw this character as someone who is weak and afraid rather than actively evil. A sniveler...

He is certainly not a very attractive character, is he?

Does anyone think he should have been punished further than what he was at the end of AMRT?

I would have kinda liked to see him strapped to the wheel of one of Alend's supply carts and used as a spare tire all the way to Orison ... . But I think that SRD was probably right to get him the way he did--left severely alone with his cowardice.

Not that SRD was attempting to make an argument for democratically-elected government, but I thought it was interesting that he was the only Lord who inherited the rule of his care after the wars for Mordant's creation. He didn't fight in them himself--it was his dad who did that. In that context, it's interesting that Armigite is the care closest to Alend (am I remembering right, danlo?), and Alend has the closest thing to an elective government there is among the three countries.

Armigite's lily-livered betrayal was purely political, and done entirely out of what he thought was self-preservation. Maybe sort of like the Vichy government in WWII? Despicable, but not absolutely evil?

Alend is bordered at the north with Alend. A large breach in the mountians make Armigrite directly accessible from Scarab. All of west Termigan boarders Armigite but, after the mountains, the terrian is rough and barren and requires a longer march.

There are two other SRD characters kinda comparable to the Armigite: Milos Travener in The Gap Saga and Rant Absolain the ghaddi of Bhrathairealm in The One Tree. Rant is ruled out as he was completely under the power of the Kemper-but comparing Milos is rather interesting.

Wow, danlo, I never thought of that. I've thought about comparison b/t Terisa & TC, but....hmmm. Let me think. [Myste goes away for two hours and considers the problem during a very boring meeting, comes back at lunchtime]

(Just so people know, there's probably going to be a bunch of spoilers in this comparison!)

Rant is a full-blown tool of the Kemper. The Armigite 's utter cowardice leads him into treachery. Milos's actions are predicated on gaining, and maintaining, his power. And they all do their nasty deeds in order to save their own skins.

Rant is ruled out as he was completely under the power of the Kemper

My first instinct is to agree with you one hundred percent about Rant: he's so completely in thrall to the Kemper that he should be dismissed--unlike the Armigite and Milos, he doesn't have free will. But on further consideration, I wonder if maybe he isn't more like the Armigite than Milos is.

Milos betrays humanity to the Amnion in order to save his own measly hide in much the same way the Armigite betrays Mordant. In that, they're certainly similar. But Milos has a history of using his ability to betray people without remorse (I refer to his, uhm, 'buggering' for the guttergangs) not only to save his skin, but to gain power over other people. That's his entire goal--power. It's only when that power starts to unravel that he starts scrambling to save his skin.

On the other hand, both Rant and the Armigite give up. I don't have the book in front of me, but isn't Rant described at one point as seeming to be extremely uncomfortable in the Kemper's presence? Rant knows he's a tool, but is too abjectly terrified to so much as think of doing anything about it. The Armigite makes a deal with Alend to let them march through his Care, and the only stipulation he makes is that he know nothing about it. Both Rant and the Armigite are willing to sacrifice everthing and everyone just to save their own measly skins, with as little inconvenience to them as possible.

Milos, on the other hand, expects more recompense--he expects to be well-paid. Even when Warden Dios, Min Donner, and Hashi Lebwohl have sussed out his double-dealing on Com-Mine and taken away what appears to be all his power, he still takes what recompense he can, in the form of revenge on Angus. It's only when he comes down to the wire that he's willing to to bargain with the Amnion merely for his life.

So I guess what I'm saying is that Rant shouldn't be ruled out, and I don't agree with you at all. Please don't eat me, danlo!

I can see your point about Rant--prehaps the Kemper picked him simply because he was born with no spine? The power the Kemper has over the people and the ghaddi is pretty damm powerful, though-To hypnotize a strong person like Linden into doing his will with TC via his occular? Yikes!

The ocular is definitely creepy. Not quite as creepy as the symbiont-baby thing (the term for which I can't remember at all), which is undoubtedly one of the most gruesome depictions of the "thing-sorcerors-use-to-hide/keep-their-hidden-life-in" device I've ever read. But still creepy in that it works so easily, so undeniably, so unalterably...

it makes me wonder where on Earth he got it.

I think there is another character that might be similar to the Armigite... Godsen (The Gap Saga)... He was a coward... and the only time he wasn't caused him to die... hmmm...

Godsen Frik, of course! <slaps forehead> A much better match for the Armigite than Milos. I believe the word for Godsen, Armigate, and possibly even the gaddhi is: Pusillanimous. (I'm working on my vocab for when Runes comes out.)

Milos, on the other hand, is a particularly creepy kind of weasel. Maybe more like Nyle, if Nyle wasn't a son of the Domne...?

Godsen, good God yes! Maybe we should start a poll somewhere about "most spineless SRD characters."

THAT is a genius idea. Go for it!

Well who are the nominees, you guys have to help me with this; Scriven (or was he too cool?) The Armigrite, Godsen, the ghaddi, Milos, Drool Rockworm, who else can you think of? Nyle? No...

Wait Danlo! Be not so hasty in your demeaning of good Godsen... I mean he did discover loyalty in the end... and sided himself with Warden rather then the Dragon...

Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that even when Godsen tried to redeem himself, he failed. He was just too slimy to climb out of the pit he dug for himself--he kept sliding back to the bottom. And then when he finally made it almost to the top, he dropped again--with a big bang.

Anyway, I still think he should go on the poll. Uhm, slimy, slimy.....
I don't know Scriven (though I see from other posts that he's in "Penance"--I haven't read Reave the way I've read Daughter) but I'm all for it; Godsen, Milos, Armigite, Rant, Drool...what about somebody from Daughter of Regals? Count Thone? Scour? That naughty rebel?

There is now a poll for "Most Spineless Character" in Gen. Discussion-thanks for your help guys!

Excellent!

danlo wrote:There is now a poll for "Most Spineless Character" in Gen. Discussion-thanks for your help guys!

The Armigite is selfish and cowardly, but there's no way in my mind that's he's worse than Eremis/Gilbur/Vagel/Festten, who use their powers to inflict horrible suffering upon the innocent.