Kevin's Watch

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2002 6:06 am**

The Chronicles are by far my favorite literature of my 40 odd years of reading, including Tolstoy, Tolkien,and Steinbeck. I have found no other work with such depth, color, interest, and spiritual significance.

So, I've taken it upon myself to share this great gift with others. I have bought about 15 copies of the entire 6 book set to give to friends and family.

This has been a complete waste of time! Although I have a few friends who have warmed to the work on their own, no one I have given the books has found them palatable. Just today one returned a set of the first Chronicles with a note "I couldn't get into these - maybe someone else would like them better ". Even those interested in fantasy and science fiction seem only mildly interested . I managed to convince one of my best friends to stick it out, and he barely choked down the first three books with no desire to read The Wounded Land. (When I first found the Wounded Land, I stayed up all night to read it from start to finish!). My wife , like many others, went adrift part way through Lord Foul's Bane, finding it dull and dreary.

Thus far I have met no one here who is as captivated as am I by this work, and few even on-line that seem as interested in the spiritual and psychological aspects as they are by the details of the testing of the wood, etc.

It all reminds me of the Biblical saying (which I've never understood) to not "cast your pearls before swine" - I've taken to tell my friends that reject the Chronicles that they have failed a test and are not worthy of them!

Has anyone else had similar experiences?

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2002 6:15 am**

No one in I know in "the real world" likes them.

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2002 6:19 am**

Well, I think the only person I know who is into the Chronicles is Alynna, and she was the one to get me into the series, heh. I bought Lord Foul's Bane for my Aunt once, but I don't know if she's read it yet. I donno, but maybe it's not a good idea to buy people the entire series? I think throwing six-lengthy books at someone is enough to turn anyone away. Heh. Maybe you should just give people Lord Foul's Bane to start out. That way, if they're interested, they can always pick up the rest of the books. If not, then it's money saved, heh.-jay

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2002 6:21 am**

I've been recommending the Chronicles to folks for years--and the only ones who liked them have already been fans!

But I keep trying!!

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2002 6:24 am**

back at school 15 years ago two others loved them, and one more mate has enjoyed them. But most say its too depressing. My wife won't touch them, she hates scary/downcast stuff, which is gonna be amusing when we go see Ghost Ship which we must as her daughter worked on it!

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2002 4:53 pm**

NO!!!!!!!

I have yet to find anyone who likes the Chronicles! Infedels!!That is why this palce is such a godsend

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2002 6:40 pm**

First of all, I'd love to be your friend. I never get books as gifts and if I do it's usually fluff. ((plus I need a new set of the chronicles so bad it isn't funny -

))

I got in to the series after my mom read them. There was a time in my family when books got passed around a lot. Usually Mom would read them, then sometimes my dad, me and then my brother. Of course the order usually varied after Mom. I think with the Dragonlance series I was the last one in the family to read them and I don't think my dad ever did read the LOTR books (but could be wrong). Any hoo... of my immediate family we've all read TC but I'm probably the only one who has really read it repeatedly although I'm pretty sure that everyone has reread it at least once. I think my mom has read MN but not sure about my father and brother. I have one family friend who has read TC and then MN (on my insistence). But again she doesn't really seem "into" them.

On an exciting front I just got one of my aunts to read MN and she emailed me yesterday saying how cool she thought the books were and wanted to share them with her friends...so I guess I'm making progress with that SRD work. (BTW - I usually find it easier to introduce people to SRD with this work, TCTC and TG are just tough reads if you aren't really ready for them.)

As for the next generation (my kids) they are not old enough for TCTC and definitly not ready for the Gap Series. They do love the LOTR movie though and have shown some interest in reading them. I could probably read MN to them but will have to think about it for awhile. Sadly I didn't marry a man who reads for entertainment. And since my parents moved away y'all are my only source of commiseration/communication when it comes to these books.

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2002 7:30 pm**

What a good topic m8

I'm glad i'm not the only one. Any friends in whom i discern even a mild interest in books normally have me trying to foist a set on them.. for their own good u see. I even sent a complete set to an online friend in the states.. a committed Jordanite.. alas to no avail!! Waaaaahhhhhhhh Funny you should mention the High Wood testing bit. In the group read that was the most intruiging part of the chapters under discussion for me

Right!! Caught up, and then some.. as im sure has been observed he biggest challenge will be not getting so far ahead that u forget whats happened in the chapters in discussion lol Anyway.. first impressions on these chapters at current reread.. as ever, its a totally new experience rereading TC a few years down the line.. and what seems salient each time is not neccessarily the same. Whats interesting reading again when ur already quite familiar with the series is that you have more leisure to analyse details and developments within the context of the bigger picture, the wider themes. So.. these are my thoughts atm

As someone already said, up till this point he's used the wild magic twice, both times it appears to have been the result of some strong emotion, rage etc. This dovetails nicely with what for me thus far was the most moving event.. and it's implications. Baradakas' reaction to TC. As we all know, he IS the white gold.. to save or to damn. To most he's closed, they can't decide if he's for good or ill for that very reason. He IS the paradox.. the white gold. Remember the quote, worst thing.. to be given back something broken etc etc.. TC's contempt and disgust for his illness and himself by proxy are the preconditions which make him of all people most susceptible to beauty and the value of it. This is what Baradakas saw, the depth of his loathing for Illness/Unhealth.. and the flipside of that which is an utterly profound appreciation for its opposites. To save or damn - questions wether his love for that will be enough for him to set aside his self loathing, to discard the tenets of his survival.. in it's service. This as we know, is his struggle throughout the series.. real or not.. survive or embrace. This is the cusp he hovers on which makes him the white gold. It all seems to fit together on yet another level at this reading.. god i can never tire of this series lol

thoughts please!

Kas

I was a bit surprised noone chimed in with those thoughts.. as it seemed the crux of it is very close to the surface in that particular exchange.. but maybe i was getting a bit abstracted lol

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2002 7:34 pm**

I must say that I do have high hopes for my younger son.

He's still in elementary school (much too young yet for Donaldson or George Martin) but he's already read LOTR three times! And he loves the movie. We've watched the DVD together a bunch of times (makes my older son and husband go

and head to the old nasty ancient tv in the basement to watch football together). Big son will read an occasional Star Wars book, but seems to have the same taste in books as my husband (huge tomes of world history). But my little son seems to be a chip off the old Mommy block! What age do ya'll recommend starting a kiddo on Donaldson or Martin? I was thinking somewhere around 14-16?

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:50 pm**

Perfect Dutchess, i read them when i was 15. I think around that age is perfect with all its teenage/existentialist angst.. ur mature enough to understand the books and receptive to TC in a way that you wont be again given the particular vulnerabilities of that age.. i think

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:56 pm**

duchess of malfi wrote:(makes my older son and husband go and head to the old nasty ancient tv in the basement to watch football together)

Tell them it is possible to have the best of both worlds! I am a football freak (our code, not the american one), and love most other sports as well. Yet I also have all these Donaldson and Tolkien books lying around.

It's not preclusive!

Posted: **Sat Dec 07, 2002 2:43 am**

I read TWL in 4th grade, and from then i was hooked on the series. i was given the book by my father, who also liked the series, although he only read the second chron. most of my friends dig the books, so much so that several of us are working on a TC mud (shameless plug)

Posted: **Sat Dec 07, 2002 3:23 am**

I managed to get one friend hooked a few years ago (i think he made it through the first and second chronicles and the gap series in a little over a month). I got my wife to read through the first chronicles. I think she thought they were alright, though she was impressed by the writing... used to Stephen King (no disrespect to him) and the like.

I just recently gave my highlighted, dog-eared, covers-falling-off-the-binding paperback set of the first chrons to my best friend of 20 years (we read a lot of books together, but he never read those).

In my opinion, very few writers compare to Donaldson (the only two contemporaries I can think of right now are Gene Wolfe and Chuck Palahniuk). I see him something akin to Thomas Hardy- masterful, but an acquired taste that isn't for everybody (see previous Cadburry Egg themed post).

I would feel personally insulted if someone returned the books to me. I think I'd send em a couple Danielle Steele novels in return, or maybe the newest Xanth novel... no, nobody deserves that.

Posted: **Sun Dec 08, 2002 7:17 pm**

As a matter of fact, I was telling one of my supervisors about about the Chronicles and he's asked to borrow them. So maybe I've just created another fan!

Posted: **Sun Dec 08, 2002 9:07 pm**

Same here srtrout, I didn't go to your extent, I gave just LFB to two people, and they didn't get past the first few pages.

My partner will not touch the books, and that kinda frustrates me. I would have read them only out of curiosity to find out what my parter was so thrilled about. I still have hope with my brother though, I'll introduce the books to him some day.

Kas, I thought your post was extremely interesting. Yet I don't see how Barakadas could have grasped that about Covenant during the short time of thier acquaintance. I also posted about the connection between beauty and morality in eastern philosophy. Maybe we should continue this discussion in the Dissecting forum...

- pitch

Posted: **Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:44 am**

It's funny how everyone (that I personally know) who has attempted to read the chronicles gives up after Covenant rapes Lena. It's also interesting that everyone admits that TCTC is not your average fantasy, and that Covenant is an anti-hero, but they are still not interested. I wish people would try it instead of the rubbish that's being printed these days.

Posted: **Sat Dec 14, 2002 11:08 am**

I need to work less - then I wouldn't be missing these discussions

I'm the only one in my entire family that reads either sci-fi or fantasy. The rest are dullards

The Many Coloured Land was the first Trilogy that I read and from there onwards, the concept of reading more than one book to complete a story wasn't so foreign any longer.

I suppose some people still think about it and shy away from it.

What's probably also important is that SRD isn't as prolific as some of the current authors - nor as visible.

I really would expect The Final Chronicles of Thomas Covenant to ignite interest in the first two.

Posted: **Mon Dec 16, 2002 2:20 pm**

I have three friends who enjoy the fantasy genre and who have read TCTC at my urging. The reactions were different in each case. One of them enjoyed the series as much as I did and thinks that the chronicles are the pinnacle of fantasy literature. The second enjoyed them immensely but was not as rabid towards the books as I was. I expected my third friend (who reads more fantasy than the first two combined) to absolutely love them but he was not impressed. He hated Covenant as a character ("I mean come on, he raped a girl and he's supposed to be the hero!?!?!?") and was very frustrated at his actions. He did make an interesting point when he told me that when he was younger his best friend read TCTC while he himself was reading LOTR. Since that time he has always seen fantasy readers as "LOTR people" or "TCTC people". In other words he may have had a bias against the chronicles even before starting to read.

I've read a tremendous amount of fantasy and not since TCTC have I ever achieved the blissful state of enjoyment that I experienced while reading these books. The tremendous highs and depressing lows, the melodrama, the characters all contributed to form a singular experience that I have never achieved since. I think I'll start another post asking for your literary recommendations in the hopes that one of you will produce a gem that I have not read that will rival TCTC!

Posted: **Mon Dec 16, 2002 4:46 pm**

None of my close friends read, so no, they don't like the chrons as they won't read them...my dad has though, they're some of his fave books.
Some acquaintances of mine read, and I recommend the books, but if anyone has ever had any rave reviews to give they never reached me...

Posted: **Mon Dec 16, 2002 9:51 pm**

Brinn wrote: Since that time he has always seen fantasy readers as "LOTR people" or "TCTC people". In other words he may have had a bias against the chronicles even before starting to read.

Interesting. I've read LOTR and really enjoyed it, but it didn't stay with me the way that TCTC did. I even joined an email fan group thingy for LOTR only to unsub about a week later. These people were just into it in a way that I wasn't.

Funny though...my brother really loves LOTR but couldn't get into TCTC. That was when we were younger...maybe I can talk him into a re-read. I've already piqued his interest in The Gap series.

I'd be interested in seeing a poll or something on fans of LOTR vs. TCTC...

Kevin's Watch

Do your friends appreciate the Chronicles?

Do your friends appreciate the Chronicles?

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