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Contemplating Brahms

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:58 pm
by Worm of Despite
He sounds like an awesome Romantic composer. Plus, it would only be fitting, as the rest of my composers have last names starting with the letter B (Bach, Beethoven, Bartok). :roll: So, shall I carry on the tradition with Brahms? I found a good 4-disc set of his symphonies (conducted by one Sir Georg Solti). Any input on that particular product or any musings on Brahms to help me along with my decision would be much appreciated!

Oh yeah, and as a totally unrelated aside: what was that one symphony where at its premiere it caused a riot? Thanks.

Brahms :)

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:53 pm
by duchess not logged in
That is the same set I have. I do not know about any riots, but I love his third symphony. 8) :D

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:38 am
by Fist and Faith
Stravinsky's Rite of Spring caused a riot. Or at least a lot of yelling and complaining. I don't remember hearing that a Brahms piece caused a riot.

Brahms' German Requiem is among my "desert island" discs. Either John Eliot Gardiner
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/ ... =classical
or Robert Shaw
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000003 ... 57-8958410
conducting is fantastic. There are such moments of glory in this piece!!

I'm also very fond of Brahms' 2nd piano concerto. I have Ashkenazy's performance.

The piano quartets are great.
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/ ... =classical
is a great recording, but I see it's still full-price. :(

His violin concerto is one of the greatest of violin concertos. He also has a double concerto, with violin and cello. Which brings up his cello sonatas. And his string quartets.

He also wrote a lot of songs. (I'm a huge fan of Schubert's songs, but Brahms ain't bad either! :))

Brahms is definitely cool! 8)

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:09 am
by duchess of malfi
I haven't heard most of the things Fist mentioned...but I have listened to, and enjoyed, the German Requiem. :)

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:32 am
by Dragonlily
I love Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. And personally I would trust anything conducted by Georg Solti. Wagner most of all.

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:43 am
by matrixman
Uh-oh, I'm afraid I disagree with Dragonlily. I don't trust anything conducted by Solti. That includes Wagner. I think I'm outvoted by SRD and Dragonlily here. :)

I'm afraid Brahms leaves me cold. It's true that through willpower I could probably sit through his symphonies without complaint (or without dozing off), and the Third is even vaguely exciting at times...but to my ears, most of his music is like a lumbering beast that just sits there, too contented with itself to go anywhere. Oh, well, at least he has fans here in Fist and duchess.

In terms of other Romantic composers starting with 'B', I'll take Bruckner over Brahms any day. Bruckner's music is more "awesome" than Brahms's by a long shot, in my opinion. (And what an opinionated jerk I am, eh?) Funny thing is, Bruckner's critics would also say his music is slow and lumbering, the same way I feel about Brahms's. Guess you'll have to decide for yourself...

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:18 pm
by Worm of Despite
Matrixman wrote:Uh-oh, I'm afraid I disagree with Dragonlily. I don't trust anything conducted by Solti.
How come?

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:30 am
by matrixman
I don't hear depth in Solti's interpretations, and his style is too dry when it comes to my favorite music. What recordings of his I've heard just have not emotionally involved me, so I don't trust a Solti performance to give me the true emotional power of a musical work.

But hey, that's just me. We could discuss favorite conductors all day long, but it boils down to a matter of taste. I know my opinion is in the minority concerning Solti. Many classical buffs do in fact love the Solti style. I'm just not one of them, that's all.

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:40 am
by danlo
I saw Bernstien conduct the NYPO when I was 9 so I'm too spoiled to make maestro judgements! :P

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:38 am
by matrixman
Very cool, danlo. Bernstein and the NYPO: what a great partnership that was.

Bernstein and the NYPO's live 1987 recording of Mahler's Third Symphony was a profound listening experience.

"Lenny" was definitely one conductor who emotionally engaged me.

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:46 pm
by Rivenrock
..

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:21 am
by Worm of Despite
I listened to the samples of Brahms and did some research here. I liked what I saw and listened to, so ordered the Solti set.

Now, I've got $154 bucks left for classical music expenditures. This 64-disc CD holder isn't going to cut it much longer, if I keep buying all these masterpieces. Going to Barnes & Noble tomorrow and I'm gonna buy a 94-disc holder (if it's cheap, mind you). But more importantly, I'm going to buy Beethoven's Late String Quartets and Bach's St. Matthaus Passion.

So by tomorrow, I will own the following (classical-wise):

Brandenburg Concertos
Musical Offering (thanks Fist!)
The Art of Fugue
Bach: Toccatas and Fugues - Organ
Bach: Sonatas & Partitas for Solo Violin (thanks Fist!)
Bach: St. Matthew Passion
Beethoven: The Late String Quartets
Beethoven: 9 Symphonien
Brahms: The Symphonies
Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra
Bartok - The String Quartets (thanks Fist!)

If you guys see any glaring holes in that collection that need to be filled with another rocking composer/composition, lemme know. I'm lovin' this stuff!

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:37 am
by duchess of malfi
Mozart's Requiem?

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:36 am
by Fist and Faith
Well, Foul, since you did some sampling, and I don't think you're the average listener, I suppose skipping Beethoven's Early and Middle quartets won't be a problem. But you should definitely go back to at least the Middle at some point. His piano sonatas are also incredible. I particularly go for the Late, but the famous ones that are often gathered on one disc, Moonlight, Pathetique, and Appasionata, deserve their fame.

Mind you, you could fill a few of those giant players with just Bach, and consider yourself blessed! :D

Yes, Mozart's Requiem is great. Actually, one of the very few Mozart pieces that I truly love. His "Haydn" Quartets, so named because that's who Mozart dedicated them to, are also great - particularly the "Dissonance" Quartet. In general, Mozart's string quintets - using a second viola - are considered his greatest accomplishments in chamber music. (But I still prefer the Dissonance Quartet. :))

Regarding Requiems, Verdi's is a cute little piece. You know, the way the Empire State Building is a cute little building.

And, being the chamber music fan that I am, I must recommend Schubert's quintet. Mozart threw in a 2nd viola, but Schubert uses a second cello instead. (It's often called the Cello Quintet.) It is ranked among the top several pieces of chamber music, and rightly so.

Of course, Schubert's greatest genius is for his songs. Not that the quintet is not as good as anything, but he wrote over 600 songs. Not too shabby. In incredible ways, he made the piano an equal part, rather than just accompaniment. And his melodies are achingly beautiful. Be prepared, however, because death and grief are common themes. One teacher said that performances of his brilliant song-cycle Winterreisse are not joyous occasions. When performed well, there is maybe a smattering of applause, which is for the artistry of the performers. But it's too depressing to give shouts of praise.

Bartok's Sonata for 2 pianos and percussion is another must-have if his.

Chopin put more emotion and substance into 2-3 minutes of piano music than anybody else ever imagined. Even his etudes are highly musical, whereas anybody else's are nothing more than what the word means - basically, finger exercises. It's easy enough to get complete collections of his Nocturnes, Preludes, Etudes, etc.

I really love Debussy, but he's REALLY different from the others. (Bartok is too, but, uh, different in a different way.) The counterpoint that you and I love so much in the B's is absent. I'm not sure if he'd interest you while you're still so in that groove, but you may as well listen to some samples. You probably know Claire de lune, which was written for a piano, although it's often heard in orchestral arrangements. The girl with the flaxen hair is another famous piano work. Prelude to the afternoon of the fawn is an awesome orchestral piece. He invented Impressionism in music, and most of his stuff is lush and dreamy. (One notable exception is his piano etudes, which are performed to perfection by Mitsuko Uchida.)

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:43 am
by duchess of malfi
Oh, definately Schubert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:43 pm
by Worm of Despite
Wow, thanks for all the recommendations, Fist (and Duchess for the Mozart one). I think my next step will indeed be his Requiem and some of Schubert's stuff.

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:52 am
by Cord Hurn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2RdH4jrelA

[Brahms: String Quartet Op. 51 No. 1 in C Minor]