Kevin's Watch

wait for it...














Nobody on the list yet has mentioned that moksha Jehannum does *not* appear anywhere in Runes. turiya Herem does and samadhi Sheol is believed unmade (and consumed). An accident or...?

This might support the Roger-as-Raver thesis, though I tend to believe that he was warped by Foul long ago.

Lastly, anyone who's read Runes...







Any theories about what Jeremiah built in their home, besides Revelstone and Mount Thunder? There's ONE construction that Linden leaves un-dismantled... hm...

Drew

There are two constructions that she leaves whole: the castle just inside the front door, and the racetrack thing in the bedroom. Of the two, the racetrack seems more important, but what significance it could possibly have is beyond me.

DrewBittner wrote:wait for it...









Nobody on the list yet has mentioned that moksha Jehannum does *not* appear anywhere in Runes. turiya Herem does and samadhi Sheol is believed unmade (and consumed). An accident or...?

This might support the Roger-as-Raver thesis, though I tend to believe that he was warped by Foul long ago.

Lastly, anyone who's read Runes...







Any theories about what Jeremiah built in their home, besides Revelstone and Mount Thunder? There's ONE construction that Linden leaves un-dismantled... hm...

Drew

Thats easy. It is THE ARCH OF TIME! The racetracks are the mapping of the caesures; the course they take throughout time.

Aaaaaaaah...clever...

Prover of Life wrote:Thats easy. It is THE ARCH OF TIME! The racetracks are the mapping of the caesures; the course they take throughout time.

That's a fascinating theory, and you're undoubtedly correct. I'm kicking myself for missing that. Donaldson would never describe something in such concrete detail if it meant absolutely nothing.

This raises an interesting question. IF it is the real Jeremiah being brought to Revelstone, and IF he's been tampered with by Foul and delivered to Linden et. al through the Demondim, why is Foul returning him ?

The other interesting question is: how did he know all of this?

One possibility, although I'm not convinced of it, is this: Linden kept asking where the Creator was. Perhaps the Creator was speaking through Jeremiah.

Perhaps the Creator visited Jeremiah, and told him to "Be true."

dlbpharmd wrote:Perhaps the Creator visited Jeremiah, and told him to "Be true."

And Jeremiah is essentially mute, capable only of "speaking" through the objects he creates. Entirely possible.

Just a thought, but: Are we sure that Lord Foul actually had Jeremiah? I mean, ok, he said he did...but there's no independent evidence of it, and I can't imagine a less reliable source .
Foul could easily have been lying to drive Linden into extreme, Arch-busting actions

Spoiler

like her trek across time.

The idea about Jeremiah's constructs is a great one, and almost certainly bang on. I've been wondering myself, if Jeremiah's mind isn't home, then where is it?

Gart wrote:Just a thought, but: Are we sure that Lord Foul actually had Jeremiah? I mean, ok, he said he did...but there's no independent evidence of it, and I can't imagine a less reliable source .
Foul could easily have been lying to drive Linden into extreme, Arch-busting actions

Spoiler

like her trek across time.

The idea about Jeremiah's constructs is a great one, and almost certainly bang on. I've been wondering myself, if Jeremiah's mind isn't home, then where is it?

I've thought about that. Foul's word is meaningless to me. I think that at this stage of the game, he might be partially nuts, given the fact that he's had the tar whipped out of him so many times, from the Creator on down.

It's occurred to me too that Foul could well just be lying. He always lies. He only tells the truth when it's more damaging than a lie.

CovenantJr wrote:There are two constructions that she leaves whole: the castle just inside the front door, and the racetrack thing in the bedroom. Of the two, the racetrack seems more important, but what significance it could possibly have is beyond me.

It's a mobius loop. No matter where you start, you always end up back at the beginning. It makes me wonder about something Caer-Caveral said about his death, namely that with it the Earth would "pass into its last age" and "nothing would redeem it." And the End does seem to be drawing nigh in Runes. However, even though this might be the last age, nobody said it couldn't be reconnected to the first age...

That it might be the arch of time is inspired and surely true, but who is Jeremiah? If his mind has been bodilessly in the land all these years then where has it been and who might he really be to know of these places?

It may be that SD has left name clues. Liand is very similar to Linden and they were drawn to one another in some way we don't yet understand.

Anele, as has been commented on, is similar to Elena, and they both wielded the staff of law badly, both had significant parents and were both possessed by evil.

Could Jeremiah have some connection with Jehannum?

native wrote:That it might be the arch of time is inspired and surely true, but who is Jeremiah? If his mind has been bodilessly in the land all these years then where has it been and who might he really be to know of these places?

It may be that SD has left name clues. Liand is very similar to Linden and they were drawn to one another in some way we don't yet understand.

Anele, as has been commented on, is similar to Elena, and they both wielded the staff of law badly, both had significant parents and were both possessed by evil.

Could Jeremiah have some connection with Jehannum?

Good point. Also, if you remove the "i" from Liand, you get "Land". And perhaps I missed what was said earlier, but Anele is Elena spelled backwards.

Dave wrote:However, even though this might be the last age, nobody said it couldn't be reconnected to the first age...

Excellent point - the race track (note that there are no cars on the race track, which could represent caesures, if used) is a powerful hint. It's been noted that Jeremiah might be the Creator himself. Wasn't it said that

Spoiler

Covenant was going to destroy the universe? I seem to remember that Donaldson said that in a reading of Runes some time ago. If that's the case, perhaps the intent is to destroy the Arch, and then rebuild, with Foul out of the picture? One would have to imagine that the Creator is filled with despair (regardless of my signature, which the Creator spoke at the end of TPTP) at the devastation that HE inflicted on his own creation? In his shoes, I would be. For that matter, if I were a denizen of the Land, I would hate the bastard for all of the ruin that Foul brought to my world.

When I was about a third of the way through Runes, I had a theory that the reason the ochre begger didn't show up is because the Creator is no longer interested in trying to save the Land. And that, ultimately, Linden will wake the Worm deliberately, in order to eliminate Foul. This fits somewhat with SRD's statement that the Third Chronicles would be about acceptance - acceptance that sacrificing the whole lot is the only way to put things right.

However...

I'm pretty sure I read in an interview that SRD is destroying the Land in order to prevent others abusing it after his death. If he had the Creator starting over with a new world, that would leave endless scope. So that kind of nudges me toward the loop idea.

Besides, SRD has never done anything I've anticipated.

Y'know, if you cut a mobius strip down the middle, when you get to the point where you started, it turns into two interlocking rings. Just sayin'...

native wrote:That it might be the arch of time is inspired and surely true, but who is Jeremiah? If his mind has been bodilessly in the land all these years then where has it been and who might he really be to know of these places?

<snip>

Could Jeremiah have some connection with Jehannum?

Jeremiah's mind was blasted by the events in the Second Chronicles. Perhaps he has been (partly) in the land for the last ten (3500) years. What character spans the intervening time?

Esmer?

Just thinking aloud...

R.

CovenantJr wrote:It's occurred to me too that Foul could well just be lying. He always lies. He only tells the truth when it's more damaging than a lie.

He certainly doesn't seem to be using any of his former might. Just "whispered a word of council here and there". Maybe he has little power left except to manipulate others (though in Foul's hands that may be enough).

R.

Raist wrote:

CovenantJr wrote:It's occurred to me too that Foul could well just be lying. He always lies. He only tells the truth when it's more damaging than a lie.

He certainly doesn't seem to be using any of his former might. Just "whispered a word of council here and there". Maybe he has little power left except to manipulate others (though in Foul's hands that may be enough).

Does it occur only to me that Foul seems almost, erm, human this time around? I mean, he's been pretty decent to Linden so far, pointing her toward the hurtloam and all. Granted, he wants to encourage her to serve his purpose, but that whole exchange between him and Linden ("What have you done?" "Me? Nothing! Just put in a word here and there") struck me as the most human-like statement we've ever heard from the Despiser.

As for Anele -- I hadn't though about his name being Elena backwards. But I did notice that it's very close in spelling to "anneal", which means (more or less) to heat and then cool something in order to strengthen it or make it less brittle. That's *such* an SRD kind of word! And it has numerous implications for Anele's impact on Linden and for his place in the story.

And as for Liand -- that boy's got the hots for Linden....

So...Anele's came could be referring to "Elena," the word "anneal," or the word "anele." Why do I get the feeling that SRD was laughing maniacally when he came up with this name?