Kevin's Watch

Probably an old chestnut, this thread, but what the hey. I'm actually asking for something rather specific: let's say you're TC right after the Power that Preserves (so you don't know anything about the Second Chrons, you cheaters).

Now, when the Creator offers you, Mr. Covenant, the chance to become a part of the Land or return to the earth, what do you do? Do you accept and join Mhoram and pals and live a long, leprosy-free life, or do you go back to Jackass Town?

Now, a lot of you would say "I'd stay because of my kids, my this, my that, etc.", but this is not directed to the you-now--more like the you-TC. Personally, way I saw it, he pretty much had nothing, and, had I been him, I would've definitely gone back to the Land. All the sights, the people, the food, the chicks who dig White Gold. Ah!

Interesting question. It seems quite important, IMHO, that Covenant still didn't unquestioningly accept the Land as real. The solution to his dilemma was the paradoxical nature of the dilemma itself - it didn't matter whether the land was real or not. So I suppose at this point Covenant is just ignoring that question, and committing himself to staying there might be too much. Second point: leaving his "real world" body lying around, he couldn't guarantee how long he'd live. Presumably (though this isn't known for certain) if his body died, TC would die in the Land too. So leaving it in the hands of random people, and vulnerable to those who might want to harm it, would be worrying. And of course, there's the question of going home. Hellish it may have been, but it was his world, his home.

On the other hand, the prospect of never being able to visit the Land again wouldn't sit too well with me. Hmmm...

I don't know which I'd choose. Very difficult.

Presumably (though this isn't known for certain) if his body died, TC would die in the Land too.

I'll go one step further - Covenant was about 30 years old during 1st Chronicles. Since he might have survived (albeit in a vegetative state) for > 40 years, he would've lived for ~ 16,000 years in the Land.

I get the impression that the Creator would have simply let him die, and his spirit would have been transferred to the Land to live a normal life, say another 40-50 years.... Intruiging concept though.

Baradakas wrote:I get the impression that the Creator would have simply let him die, and his spirit would have been transferred to the Land to live a normal life, say another 40-50 years.... Intruiging concept though.

Yeah, that's what I thought, too: that the Creator would allow him to live in the Land even if his body on earth expired. Heck, the Creator pretty much healed TC in Leper's End when all those paramedics were sure he'd die, so I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Creator had some more tricks up his sleeve.

I mean, let's look at Hile Troy. He probably died when he fell from that window--nine stories, I think. So perhaps a rule is if you die in real-life while you're in the Land, you'll be in the Land forever. I mean, Atiaran died instantly from summoning Hile. Surely, he should've been sent back after his summoner died, yet he remained.

As an aside: It’s probably nothing, but I kind of find it interesting that Atiaran was consumed by fire, and, as Hile was being summoned, his apartment was facing a similar fate.

Lord Foul wrote:As an aside: It’s probably nothing, but I kind of find it interesting that Atiaran was consumed by fire, and, as Hile was being summoned, his apartment was facing a similar fate.

Well, Troy himself thought Atiaran 'caught the fire that should have killed' him. As for the death of his summoner sending him back: Tough for that to happen when your summoner is already dead at the moment when you arrive. I think that loophole was one of SRD's more brilliant inventions.

Lord Foul wrote:
I mean, let's look at Hile Troy. He probably died when he fell from that window--nine stories, I think. So perhaps a rule is if you die in real-life while you're in the Land, you'll be in the Land forever. I mean, Atiaran died instantly from summoning Hile. Surely, he should've been sent back after his summoner died, yet he remained.

As an aside: It’s probably nothing, but I kind of find it interesting that Atiaran was consumed by fire, and, as Hile was being summoned, his apartment was facing a similar fate.

But Hile wasn't real in Covenant's world, ...or was he?
Covenant could not find anyone who knew or heard of "Hile Troy".
However, Hile did know all about Covenant and the "real" world.
Maybe Hile came from another timeline in the "real" world, therefore,
when Covenant tried to find out about Hile at the Think Tank,
he wasn't employed at that time.

*"Hi, I'm Hile Troy reporting to work on my first day."

"Hile Troy? Hmmm... I've heard your name before...
Oh yeah, some guy named Thomas Covenant was asking
about you some time ago."

"Someone was asking about ME? Some dude named Covenant?
Well, I will have to find out just who this guy is."*

And that's how Hile Troy knew so much about Covenant.

In response to the question at hand...
If I was TC, I would had stayed in the Land because in "my" world,
people that knew me hated me for what I am.
(Leper! Outcast! Unclean!)
They went out of their way to make my life miserable.
(What happened to the horse stables... A razor in an apple... Snide remarks in my face...)

In the Land, I am a LEGEND!
Sure, I'd have to take risks and do some battle,
but the leprosy is gone and my body can heal.
And I HAVE POWER! Unimaginable power. And I have FRIENDS!
They don't care if I was a leper. They wouldn't even know what leprosy is.
People RELY on me, for what I'm not too sure, but THEY LIKE ME!
What would I have to lose?

(I will now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.)

cheval wrote:But Hile wasn't real in Covenant's world, ...or was he?
Covenant could not find anyone who knew or heard of "Hile Troy".

This mysterious Think Tank was exactly that - mysterious. It was a secret. What is the likelihood that they would just give away their staff details to some random bloke who phoned?

buggar buggar bum botts!!

I just wrote a huge big post here and touched a rogue key and lost the lot

oh well here goes again

blaah blaah ..

.........................................

Hile Troy is an anomalous character! What if he wasnt actually from our world .. or TC's world .. what if he was from a different world .. similar to ours but different .. why not??

Maybe there are a myriad of worlds that converge and overlap in time/space *shrugs*

anyway

If I were HT I would have stayed .. in the Land . Sure the Creator would have allowed his natural body in our world to expire .. but offered a gift of long healthy life in the Land .. not as a spirit or not akin to the existence he has now in the Land.

A real and palpable existence .. substantive and tangible and real.

No amount of persuasion .. from the existence of an ex-wife or a kid which I may well never ever be able to see .. would keep me from taking up the Creator's offer.

TC was driven by his obsesssion with not surrendering to Leperosy! It would be too easy for him to take up an offer of an idyllic existence in the Land .. as opposed to facing up to his our world lot in life! and not letting it defeat him!!

I admire his returning to his own thankless unappreciative world .. and his own despicable unrewarding existence ..

but .. not me!

If I had been through all that TC had been through and had been abadnoned by all those I loved and cared about .. alienated by my very community .. and striken with the worst form of impotence! ack ..

I'd choose the Land in a heartbeat ..

But if you mean .. what would we do as ourselves .. not as TC .. then the outcome would be entirely different .. and a very difficult decision to make

Skyweir wrote:What if he wasnt actually from our world .. or TC's world ..

As I recall, TC's book was read to Troy. That pretty much requires the same world

TC's book was read to HIle?? I dont remeber that

buggar

well .. if that is true you are right

but he is still anomalous!! His physical self simply exchanged with the physical self of Atiaran .. I get

But the whole death of the summoner thing .. actually should have sent him off packing .. but for the fact that .. crap he exchanged physical realities with Atiaran ..

arrgghhh .. yes that makes perfect sense!

If I were Covenant at the end of TPTP, I would probably elect to stay in the Land. I figure, if I'm not welcome in my own community in the real world, then I'm not going to waste my time going back. I guess that might be seen as "giving up the fight" in the real world, which was more or less Covenant's view. But fighting for what, really? Justice? Like LF said, Covenant pretty much had nothing.

Being TC, I think I would have stayed in the Land and possibly even tried to find a way to use the power of wild magic to aid in healing the Land after Lord Foul's winter. That would have been a way for Covenant to rectify some of the harm his previous actions caused in the Land.

About TC's book being read to Hile, what about the multiverse theroy. You know multiple you, multiple me. Mabye Hile really was from a multiverse, with another, lets say famous TC, as such if Hile's world denied the fact of the Multiverse who's to say that Hile just thought it was the same Covenant? As such when TC got back and checked on Hile he wasnt there. That also brings in the question of a "Think Tank" doesnt that sound like border-line AI to you? That also goes along with a more adavnced Earth within the Multiverse? Any thoughts?

There would be nothing in this world to keep me here so why not go to the Land.

But, TC may have been staying in our world because of a thread of hope that Joan and Roger would return to him.

Of course, that was never mentioned in the books and I'm sure SRD never went that far.

If I was TC, then I would do the exact thing TC would have done; because I'm him in all ways.

I never realised you were a leper!

CovenantJr wrote: I never realised you were a leper!

"Had you been TC . . ." - You would have acted the exact same way.