Kevin's Watch

Ok, what's everyones opinion? Is there comedy in SF? And I would like to exclude purposeful comedies, like Bored with the rings, Hitchiker's guide.... For example this last winter I had a literature instructor, Betty Anne Hull, who believes Cyril Kornbluth's short story Little black bag is very funny. However, a good friend of hers and fellow comm college instructor, Beverly Friend, does not believe there is much comedy, nor should there be, in SF.

I am a very hard sell to convince there's comedy in SF. And I am not denying there are comedic moments in SF (media comedic moment, Kirk says "could someone please close that hatch"), nor that SF authors can be very critical and entertaining wits (example Harlan Ellison). And much of Vonnegut's work is comedic; however, I am still not all convinced Vonnegut is a SFnal author.

Opinions? comments?

Red Dwarf.

The crew is at Blue Alert

Rimmer: Step up to Red Alert!

Kryten: Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.

Data attempting to give a briefing with his fingers stuck in a finger puzzle.

I like Harry Harrison's Stainless Steel Rat series. There is a secne in The Stainless Steel Rat Gets Drafted that literally had me rolling on the floor.

In my office!!

Also, Harrison's 'Bill, The Intergalactic Hero' series! Although, since you did specify you wanted to "exclude purposeful comedies", maybe those don't count?

How about Philip K Dick's 'A Scanner Darkly'? Or Terry Pratchett's 'Strata'?

Check out Walter Jon William's Drake Maijstral: The Universe's #1 Allowed Burglar books: The Crown Jewels, House of Shards and Rock of Ages for some wild, funny, tounge in cheek (Han Solo-ish) romps!

taraswizard wrote:Ok, what's everyones opinion? Is there comedy in SF? And I would like to exclude purposeful comedies, like Bored with the rings, Hitchiker's guide....

[snip]

I am a very hard sell to convince there's comedy in SF. And I am not denying there are comedic moments in SF (media comedic moment, Kirk says "could someone please close that hatch"), nor that SF authors can be very critical and entertaining wits (example Harlan Ellison).

Well, if 'comedic moments' don't count, and 'purposeful comedies' don't count, and 'entertaining wits' don't count, what else is there? Looks to me like there is no possible way for there to be comedy in SF, by your definition. Or in anything else.

I'm not an SF writer myself, but I can easily see the consequences of applying your standards to the fantasy field. Much of what I write is classified in the field of 'humorous fantasy'; but by your standards it wouldn't count, because it's 'purposeful comedy'. That's fine by me. Nothing would embarrass me more than to write a book that was unintentionally funny.

So I think you need to relax or at least clarify some of your exclusions.

Actually, I think the accepted definition of 'unintentionally funny' is "camp".

So... have you seen Star Wars?

Ok,...

Excluding SF comedies (I called them "purposeful comedies", cause I am not smart enough to know what to really call them). Examples, more than above Red Dwarf, Bored with..., Hitchhikers..., Space Balls, Little shop of horrors (musical), and even Young Frankenstein and Rocky Horror... I wanted to exclude them cause IMO those were all done for camp, and camp is not always well done nor is it always my taste. Interestingly, I would include in my definition of things done for camp, as the original Batman series. I guess maybe if one wanted to narrow my exclusionary definition it would be things done for camp.

My literature instructor, used Little black bag as an example of a funny story. And since Cyril Kornbluth was one of her husband's best friends, she might know if Mr Kornbluth intended some black humor in the story. Furthermore, my instructor includes the stories of RA Lafferty as funny.

The mention of Dick's Scanner Darkly was it intended to be funny by the author? Not that familiar with Mr. Dick's works overall, read Three stigmata... over 25 yrs. ago and other stuff long ago.

(Warning I am in a somewhat crabby mood) Ok, part of my question is are those comedic moments, and those things done for camp all there is to SF comedy. Regarding things that might be inadverently funny, how does one see the Batman movies? And my example of Harlan Ellison, was used as someone who is extremely witty and glib, but I do not think his short stories are particularly funny. I know some think Repent harlequin... is a funny story, but.... As an example of someone who is witty and glib, but does not write funny stories, I could have said China Mieville or Gene Wolfe.

I specifically mentioned 'Scanner Darkly' because it's not written as 'funny sf'. It's a story in a sf setting that happens to have some moments of pure comedic genius.

Mystery Science Theater 3000?

"Shoot the film! Let God sort it out."

Personally, one of the funniest scenes in all of fantasy literature comes to me, from Mark Twain's 'A Connecticut Yankee in King Aurthur's Court', when all the Knights of the Round Table make a daring rescue of the yankee and his King, racing to thier salvation in full plate armor, riding....










bicycles.

taraswizard wrote:Excluding SF comedies (I called them "purposeful comedies", cause I am not smart enough to know what to really call them). Examples, more than above Red Dwarf, Bored with..., Hitchhikers..., Space Balls, Little shop of horrors (musical), and even Young Frankenstein and Rocky Horror... I wanted to exclude them cause IMO those were all done for camp, and camp is not always well done nor is it always my taste. Interestingly, I would include in my definition of things done for camp, as the original Batman series. I guess maybe if one wanted to narrow my exclusionary definition it would be things done for camp.

OK, now I understand better. That helps a great deal.

My literature instructor, used Little black bag as an example of a funny story. And since Cyril Kornbluth was one of her husband's best friends, she might know if Mr Kornbluth intended some black humor in the story. Furthermore, my instructor includes the stories of RA Lafferty as funny.

Lafferty's stories are indeed wonderfully humorous, if you're into that kind of humour. There is some question whether they are SF. The best authorities seem to hold that they fit, instead, into the category of 'American tall tale', of which the best-known practitioners are probably Mark Twain, Artemus Ward, and the authors of the 'Paul Bunyan' stories. One critic proposed that instead of SF or fantasy, they should simply be called lafferties.

Avram Davidson did a lot of SF and fantasy (and sometimes it's very difficult to tell which side of the line he's riding) with a similar kind of humour, but not so zany or surreal.

For some reason I didn't recognize the name Betty Anne Hull the first time I read this thread, but then you mentioned Cyril Kornbluth and the penny dropped. Her husband, Frederik Pohl, went on a remarkable tear in the 1950s in which he wrote some of the funniest stuff in SF, nearly all satirical and witty rather than campy or slapstick. 'The Midas Plague' is an excellent example; at novel length, I plump for The Space Merchants, which he wrote in collaboration with Kornbluth.

Brave New World was intended to be humorous, but Huxley's technique was not up to the requirements of his subject matter at that time. Terry Gilliam's film Brazil, though often compared to 1984, is actually much more like Brave New World in most respects, and captures the kind of 'edgy' satirical humour that Huxley couldn't quite pull off.

George R.R. Martin has written some very funny satirical SF; see in particular his fixup novel Tuf Voyaging./i] The first story to feature Haviland Tuf, 'Call Me Moses', is in my opinion a minor masterpiece of humour in science fiction.

(Warning I am in a somewhat crabby mood)

That's OK. I should put that kind of disclaimer on a lot of my posts, but I don't, so it's only fair for you to let me have it.

Ok, part of my question is are those comedic moments, and those things done for camp all there is to SF comedy. Regarding things that might be inadverently funny, how does one see the Batman movies? And my example of Harlan Ellison, was used as someone who is extremely witty and glib, but I do not think his short stories are particularly funny. I know some think Repent harlequin... is a funny story, but.... As an example of someone who is witty and glib, but does not write funny stories, I could have said China Mieville or Gene Wolfe.

Tad Williams is another. Actually Harlan Ellison has written a number of very successful humorous stories, but they are obscured by the bulk of his 'serious' work and not usually so well remembered.

Hope that helps.

I've never found there to be general lack of comedy in SF, though there are numerous works in which comedy simply wouldn't fit (I don't remember a single humerous moment from the entire Gap series, for example).

In TV, certain episodes of Star Trek and Babylon 5 have have been peppered with humour (though in B5, the jokes ranged from chuckle-worthy to cringe-making). My first memory of comedy in science fiction was Avon's cutting wit in Blake's 7.

Cally: "On my planet there is a saying: the man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken."
Avon: "Life expectancy must be fairly short among your people."

Iain M. Banks' novels usually blend humour and horror in fairly equal measure. My favourite is probably Excession, in which we learn that in this machine-led civilization of the future, there are just as many bickering bureaucrats as there are today.

Fantasy, no Sci Fi, but Terry Pratchett is hilarious, he switches between low-brow to slapstick, to very obscure and hidden comedy. I can reread him over and over.

Jumping into the fray then hopping out before getting burned...

taraswizard, it still looks to me like you want something that is both and neither. It can't be funny, but somehow it should be funny...without being funny. Maybe Variol Farseer and others here understand what you're getting at, but I haven't gotten it. Perhaps my brain is too simple to comprehend the subtle distinctions...

On another forum I reduced the original query to, is all SFnal humor camp? To take a different tack from a previous message, some camp is very intentional, Rocky Horror, Young Frankenstein, Little shop of Horrors, original Batman TV series, all examples of intended camp. YMMV

No

I like Harry Harrison's Stainless Steel Rat series, although I'll admit they're becoming rather formulaic and forced in the later volumes.

My favorite is Stainless Steel Rat Gets Drafted. There is a scene in there involving punishment, narrated by the drill sergeant, that had me rolling on the floor in my office one day.

There is tons of comedy in "The Belgariad" and "The Mallorian"