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Worm of the World's End

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:55 pm
by Fist and Faith
I know I'm not gonna remember the thread-title Ravers and the Ring when I look for info on the Worm, so I figured I'd start this thread. So here goes! From The Nicor of the Deep:
"It is said among the Elohim, whose knowledge is wonderous, and difficult of contradiction" - Pitchwife conveyed a chortle of personal amusement - "that in the ancient eternal youth of the cosmos, long ere the Earth came to occupy its place, the stars were as thick as sand throughout all the heavens. Where now we see multitudes of bright beings were formerly multitudes of multitudes, so that the cosmos was an ocean of stars from shore to shore, and the great depth of their present solitude was unknown to them - a sorrow which they could not have comprehended. They were the living people of the heavens, as unlike to us as gods. Grand and warm in their bright loveliness, they danced to music of their own making and were content.

"But far away across the heavens lived a being of another kind. The Worm. For ages it slumbered in peace - but when it awakened, as it awakens at the dawn of each new eon, it was afflicted with a ravenous hunger. Every creation contains destruction, as life contains death, and the Worm was destruction. Driven by its immense lust, it began to devour stars.

"Perhaps this Worm was not large among the stars, but its emptiness was large beyond measure, and it roamed the heavens, consuming whole seas of brightness, cutting great swaths of loneliness across the firmament. Writhing along the ages, avid and insatiable, it fed on all that lay within its reach, until the heavens became as sparsely peopled as a desert."

As Linden listened, she tasted some of the reasons behind the Giants' love of stories. Pitchwife's soft narration wove a thread of meaning into the becalmed sky and the Sea. Such tales made the world comprehensible. The mood of his telling was sad; but its sadness did no harm.

"Yet the devoured stars were beings as unlike to us as gods, and no Worm or doom could consume their power without cost. Having fed hugely, the Worm became listless and gravid. Though it could not sleep, for the eon's end of its slumber had not come, it felt a whelming desire for rest. Therefore it curled its tail about itself and sank into quiescence.

"And while the Worm rested, the power of the stars wrought within it. From its skin grew excrescences of stone and soil, water and air, and these growths multiplied upon themselves and multiplied until the very Earth beneath our feet took form. Still the power of the stars wrought, but now it gave shape to the surface of the Earth, forging the seas and the land. And then was brought forth life upon the Earth. Thus were born all the peoples of the Earth, the beasts of the land, the creatures of the deep - all the forests and greenswards from pole to pole. And thus from destruction came forth creation, as death gives rise to life.

"Therefore, Chosen," said Pitchwife firmly, "we live, and strive, and seek to define the sense of our being. And it is good, for though we compose a scant blink across the eyes of eternity, yet while the blink lasts we choose what we will, create what we may, and share ourselves with each other as the stars did ere they were bereaved. But it must pass. The Worm does not slumber. It merely rests. And the time must come when it is roused, or rouses itself. Then it will slough off this skin of rock and water to pursue its hunger across the cosmos until eon's end and slumber. For that reason, it is named the Worm of the World's End."
And because it will doubtless come up, this is from Elemesnedene:
"What are you?" she inquired in a constrained voice. "The heart of the Earth. The center. The truth. What does all that mean?"

"Sun-Sage," replied Daphin, "we are the Würd of the Earth."

She spoke clearly, but her tone was confusing. Her Würd sounded like Wyrd or Word.

Wyrd? Linden thought. Destiny - doom? Or Word?

Or both.

Into the silence, Daphin placed her story. It was an account of the creation of the Earth; and Linden soon realized that it was the same tale Pitchwife had told her during the calling of the Nicor. Yet it contained one baffling difference. Daphin did not speak of a Worm. Rather, she used that blurred sound, Würd, which seemed to signify both Wyrd and Word.

This Würd had awakened at the dawning of the eon and begun to consume the stars as if it intended to devour the cosmos whole. After a time, it had grown satiated and had curled around itself to rest, thus forming the Earth. And thus the Earth would remain until the Würd roused to resume its feeding.

It was precisely the same story Pitchwife had told. Had the Giants who had first brought that tale out of Elemesnedene misheard it? Or had the Elohim pronounced it differently to other visitors?

As if in answer, Daphin concluded, "Sun-Sage, we are the Würd - the direct offspring of the creation of the Earth. From it we arose, and in it we have our being. Thus we are the heart, and the center, and the truth, and therefore we are what we are. We are all answers, just as we are every question. For that reason, you must not judge the reply which we will give to your need."

Linden hardly heard the Elohim. Her mind was awhirl with implications. Intuitions rang against the limits of her understanding like the clamor of bells. We are the Würd. Morninglight swirling with color like a portrait of the clachan in metaphor. A willow leaved in butterflies. Self-contemplation.

Power.

Dear God! She could hardly form words through the soundless adumbration of the chimes. The Elohim-! They're Earthpower. The heart of the Earth. Earthpower incarnate.

She could not think in sequence. Hopes and insights outraced each other. These people could do everything they wanted. They were everything they wanted. They could give any gift they chose, for any reason of whim or conviction...
And just for fun, here's my favorite Wurm's from Magic: the Gathering. :mrgreen:
www.findmagiccards.com/Cards/US/Endless_Wurm.html
www.findmagiccards.com/Cards/AP/Penumbra_Wurm.html
www.findmagiccards.com/Cards/ON/Symbiotic_Wurm.html
www.findmagiccards.com/Cards/PS/Shivan_Wurm.html

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:19 am
by Krilly
The Worm story and the Creator story do not match up... so what do you guys think is the truth? I believe it's a compromise between the two.

Remember how it was said that the Creator had children, the stars? Perhaps they were what the Worm devoured, and them and the Creator lulled the beast to sleep... eventually shaping the Earth. From there, the Despiser is banished to the Earth/Worm and the AoT is used to both imprison him and keep the Worm contained.

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:38 am
by dlbpharmd
SRD answered a question about this in the GI, will try to find it....

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:07 am
by CovenantJr
I recall he answered it in characteristically inconclusive fashion :roll:

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:04 pm
by wayfriend
Lot's of people believe in both creationism and astrophysical explanations (e.g. "Big Bang" etc.) simultaneously. They do this by stipulating that God created the world by setting up the universe's physical laws so that the Earth would form 4.5 billion years down the road.

You can manage this here as well. You can stipulate that the Creator created the Earth indirectly, by creating a large Wurm which had the potential, in the right circumstances, to become the Earth down the road.

Personally I don't like it. But it is a way to go if you want to.

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:18 am
by Fist and Faith
Excellent thoughts, Wayfriend.

In comic books, when handled well, it's very cool to see folks like Thor, Zeus, Raiden, and other gods from various pantheons, meet. It's happened in Thor many times, and that's possibly where it all started for comics. Neil Gaiman did it in Sandman, when the keys of Hell were up for grabs, and he did it again in his novel, American Gods. The idea is that, somehow, all of the pantheons exist. And so all the creation myths are true. My guess is that, in the Earth of the Land, Foul could manipulate any of the various creations. He just happened to pick the one with the Worm.

Also, TCTC is quite full of paradox, eh? Is the Land real, or Covenants? Maybe both. And then there's wild magic-

This power is a paradox,
because Power does not exist without Law,
and wild magic has no Law;
and white gold is a paradox,
because it speaks for the bone of life,
but has no part of the Land.
And he who wields white wild magic gold
is a paradox-
for he is everything and nothing,
hero and fool,
potent, helpless-
and with the one word of truth or treachery
he will save or damn the Earth
because he is mad and sane,
cold and passionate,
lost and found.


Maybe the two creation stories we've heard are yet another paradox for us to embrace. :D

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:30 am
by Revan
Krilly wrote:The Worm story and the Creator story do not match up... so what do you guys think is the truth? I believe it's a compromise between the two.
Yeah... and now SRD is avioding creator questions... makes you think. :P

Another paradox Fist?! 8O :hairs: :cry:

Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:33 pm
by Fist and Faith
*bump* for Isildurs Bane

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:40 am
by Fist and Faith
bump

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:21 am
by ur-bane
Wayfriend wrote:
You can manage this here as well. You can stipulate that the Creator created the Earth indirectly, by creating a large Wurm which had the potential, in the right circumstances, to become the Earth down the road.

Personally I don't like it. But it is a way to go if you want to.
I don't like it either.
Especially when you consider that in the tale of creation in which the Creator made the Earth, the stars were his children, stuck in our sky when the Creator saw the flaw in the Rainbow and destroyed it.
So why then would he create a worm to devour his children until it got tired enough to curl around itself and sleep, thus forming the Earth?

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:10 pm
by kevinswatch
ur-bane wrote: So why then would he create a worm to devour his children until it got tired enough to curl around itself and sleep, thus forming the Earth?
Because he's a jerk?-jay

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:15 pm
by Fist and Faith
Just to throw a monkey wrench into things... :D We are actually discussing three different stories. The lore-legend of the Wounded Rainbow was not part of the tale of creation in which the Creator made the Earth. It was told by Foamfollower when he and Covenant first met, and wasn't part of Tamarantha's tale later in the book. Nor does Foamfollower's story say that the Earth was made by the Creator. We could easily fit the Rainbow story in with either Tamarantha's creation story or the Worm story. But, as ur-bane says, it's difficult to tie the three stories together. We'll just have wait, hoping that SRD somehow does it.

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:17 pm
by kevinswatch
Unless he's a jerk too.-jay :P :wink:

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:28 pm
by drew
Who told Tamarantha the story of Creation?
Who told Foamfollwer the story of the Rainbow children?

Tam studied at the Loresraat, she'd studied One Ward of knowledge, that they still couldn't translate completely.
Foamy belong to a race famous for story-telling not Fact-telling

Everything changes over time..
It's possible that these stories are not 100% accurate.

Berek obviously knew about the Worm...it's quite possible Berek knew of the Elohim..if he did, it's a good chance he knows about the whole Worm/Wurd/Word stuff, I'm sure that knowledge was passed down to Kevin...Kevin may have even passed that knowledge down to the new Lords...maybe in the 5th or 6th Wards, when they were ready to learn more about the world!

WE KNOW that there is a Creator, but even he made it seem like he's that the Creator...there are others. According to him, he didn't create the real World..and when talking to Cov at the end of TPTP he says
...If he cannot bear the world he has made, he can make another....Gods and Creators are to powerful and powerless for despair

Gods Creators.

The way I understand it...he made the World, not the Universe.
Did he make the Elohim..probebly.
Did he make that Worm? I personally don't think so, I think the Worm lives outside of the Arch.
Did he make the Arch? I'd have to say Yes.

If he did create the Universe, he did so outside the Arch of Time, and the World Inside it.

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:13 pm
by Gart
Looking over the Creation story in LFB one more time I may have found a possible resolution. It's mentioned by Tamarantha right after the Creator gets done:
Buried deep in the Earth through no will or forming of his were banes of destruction, powers virile enough to rip his masterwork into dust.
Now, the Illearth stone was very powerful, but on the evidence it wasn't up to planet-cracking - otherwise LF could have just directly used it to destroy the Earth and free himself. On the other hand, the Worm fits the description to a "T". So step forward Lord Foul and take a bow.

Either this or the Creator absent-mindedly sized his "worm prototype" in light-years instead of centimeters - thereby confirming that he's actually B.S. Johnson of Discworld fame. :)

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:59 pm
by Raison detre
I think your missing the point of the Thomas Covenant formula, it's Edom "twin's", body and soul = Thomas, that's why there's so much metephorical usage of the mechanism and process of metempsychosis, and the visual effect's of expanded prism's of light. The Wounded Rainbow is Zibeon "versicolour" the magnetic spectrum Genesis 36:3; the mirror or soul image of Adah "beauty", and the Staff of Law is the spinal collum as described in the Egyptian Cadeucious depicting the winding serpent's, one for each hemisphere of the brain through the journey into the eye, which look's remarkably like a black worm hole, and Foamfollower is the same as vapour or Shu, the Egyptian God of Air. Above all, both the first, and second Chronicals are full of Implosion sequencies, an effect on the optical field's when the spinal cord is under Torque pressure, simmilar to yoga, but more excessive in the degree's of stretching the physical frame of the body. Many of the visual effect's are attributed to the process of metempsychosis, especially the Holy Bible, as there is a visual speed difference when using these yoking mechanism's, and this is where the idea of parallel world's originated from, as the soul is an exact image of the self. The Egyptian word Aten originate's from the brain stem, where 144,000 neuron's per second are distriuted through the neck to the rest of the body, yokin the body from the feet to the neck, depleat's the neuron activity through the spinal collum, and the brain stem begin's to heat up rapidly, and result's in implosion, and a "festival of light's" visual effect, rather like sudden snow susspeded in mid air, and called the Tantra in Eastern mythology. It's rather like performing a self neuron electrical surcharge on the inside of the brain rather than on the outside with EST, Electro shock therapy, and was widley used by the ancient Egyptian's to overcome the effect's of depression = "Canaan" the inheritance of the Lord. I've been studying the metempsychosis process for year's working on Any the priest's Polling mechanism, 1250 BC Egypt, The Book of the Dead papyrus's. Any show's the mechanism associated with the Bible text "get behind me satan", and ferer's to the overlapping process of metempsychosis.
Well, have any of you ever experianced the magic mirror effect of metempsychosis?

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:10 pm
by High Lord Tolkien
Raison detre wrote:I think your missing the point of the Thomas Covenant formula, it's Edom "twin's", body and soul = Thomas, that's why there's so much metephorical usage of the mechanism and process of metempsychosis, and the visual effect's of expanded prism's of light. The Wounded Rainbow is Zibeon "versicolour" the magnetic spectrum Genesis 36:3; the mirror or soul image of Adah "beauty", and the Staff of Law is the spinal collum as described in the Egyptian Cadeucious depicting the winding serpent's, one for each hemisphere of the brain through the journey into the eye, which look's remarkably like a black worm hole, and Foamfollower is the same as vapour or Shu, the Egyptian God of Air. Above all, both the first, and second Chronicals are full of Implosion sequencies, an effect on the optical field's when the spinal cord is under Torque pressure, simmilar to yoga, but more excessive in the degree's of stretching the physical frame of the body. Many of the visual effect's are attributed to the process of metempsychosis, especially the Holy Bible, as there is a visual speed difference when using these yoking mechanism's, and this is where the idea of parallel world's originated from, as the soul is an exact image of the self. The Egyptian word Aten originate's from the brain stem, where 144,000 neuron's per second are distriuted through the neck to the rest of the body, yokin the body from the feet to the neck, depleat's the neuron activity through the spinal collum, and the brain stem begin's to heat up rapidly, and result's in implosion, and a "festival of light's" visual effect, rather like sudden snow susspeded in mid air, and called the Tantra in Eastern mythology. It's rather like performing a self neuron electrical surcharge on the inside of the brain rather than on the outside with EST, Electro shock therapy, and was widley used by the ancient Egyptian's to overcome the effect's of depression = "Canaan" the inheritance of the Lord. I've been studying the metempsychosis process for year's working on Any the priest's Polling mechanism, 1250 BC Egypt, The Book of the Dead papyrus's. Any show's the mechanism associated with the Bible text "get behind me satan", and ferer's to the overlapping process of metempsychosis.
Well, have any of you ever experianced the magic mirror effect of metempsychosis?
"Well, who can argue with THAT?" :D

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:47 am
by Fist and Faith
Bah. That's horse-and-buggy thinking.

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:59 pm
by Gadget nee Jemcheeta
Was that a joke? I can't even tell.
If it wasn't a joke, it goes against a lot of what SRD has said about storytelling...
of course, he'd never say you were <i> wrong </i> per se, but that he doesn't consider it quite that way...

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:05 am
by Fist and Faith
If I could figure out SRD's password, I'd log on as him, and say, "OMG!!!! I never thought anyone would figure it out!!!!!!!!!!!"