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Booklist Review of Runes

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:35 pm
by Mr. Land
Amazon.com has a review of Runes from Booklist. I've pasted an excerpt of it below. Expect some spoilers in the main Amazon article. All in all a good way to start.

"Filled with splendid inventions (occasionally described to the point of prolixity), this book promises extremely well for the future of the end of the Covenant chronicles. Expect readers to swarm." (Booklist)

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:07 pm
by hierachy
heh heh... I'm not even going to bother.

Thank you for sparing us the parts of that review that may be considered "spoiler", Mr Land. 8)

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:57 pm
by Esmer
I started reading it from a lack of willpower, and immediately regretted it. Argggh! :x

Hopefully the one spoiler I read before hitting the back button is one that is revealed in the book early on.

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:56 pm
by wayfriend
Mmm ... prolixity ...
-- Homer S

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:17 pm
by Brinn of the Haruchai
To read or not to read i believe that is the Question

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:30 am
by Imaginarian
Book reviewers are people who have nothing worth saying themselves that's why they have so much time to say things about other peoples books. Yet their commentary is somehow supposed to be worthwhile. Puzzling.

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 5:30 am
by Dragonlily
Your post was somehow worthwhile, Imaginarian? You offer us insight? Analysis?

Joy, Book Reviewer

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:34 am
by Variol Farseer
Dragonlily wrote:Your post was somehow worthwhile, Imaginarian? You offer us insight? Analysis?

Joy, Book Reviewer
Brevity, at least.

There are good book reviewers, certainly, but the signal-to-noise ratio has always been awfully low. George Orwell, who was as good a reviewer AND critic as you'll find (they're not the same thing at all, but he did both well, just as Berek was both seer and prophet), admitted quite frankly that most reviews are an utter waste of time.
In 'Confessions of a Book Reviewer', George Orwell wrote:In much more than nine cases out of ten the only objectively truthful criticism would be 'This book is worthless', while the truth about the reviewer's own reaction would probably be 'This book does not interest me in any way, and I would not write about it unless I were paid to.' . . . [A]s soon as values are mentioned, standards collapse. For if one says — and nearly every reviewer says this kind of thing at least once a week — that King Lear is a good play and The Four Just Men is a good thriller, what meaning is there in the word 'good'?
There is a certain truth to what Imaginarian says, after all. Really good writers don't generally review books; they are much better paid for their own original work than they could ever be for reviews. (There are a few honourable exceptions; Orson Scott Card comes to mind.) Hack writers are too likely to give sweetheart reviews, hardly daring to criticize any book because they're afraid that the author will write a review lambasting them in turn. The art of literary criticism is desperately neglected nowadays, especially in North America, and the quality of literature has suffered noticeably for it. But all this has been said far better than I could by B.R. Myers, in his famous, or infamous, Reader's Manifesto.

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:17 am
by Dragonlily
Farseer, I expected better of you. Less generalization, for one thing. "Hack writers are too likely to give sweetheart reviews." Two questionable generalizations in one sentence.

My other major point is, the job of a reviewer is not to write literature, it is to match the reader up with a book he/she will enjoy. There are readers who actually enjoy mindless repetitions of the same unlikely stories, and if we said "This is crap," they would miss out on their good times.

The author has the right to be understood, and the responsibility of making himself understood, to the appropriate level of readers.

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:12 am
by duchess of malfi
I actually enjoy well thought out book reviews. :) Gives me at least a bit of an idea of whether or not I should try an unfamiliar author or book. :)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:11 am
by matrixman
I have no problem with book reviews either. It's how I get information about books that I simply don't have the time or the inclination to read. If I had a thousand-year lifespan with bionic eyes and could comfortably live being paid just to read books...then I guess I wouldn't need to bother with reviews. But then, would I really want to read through an entire book that by all indications sucks, just to avoid reading a good review that warns of its suckitude? Excuse me, but that's a highly inefficient use of my finite and mortal brainpower. Power to you, Joy! Keep those good reviews coming! (Yes, I've checked out your site.) :)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:28 am
by Dragonlily
:D Thanks, MM. Another Julian May review coming soon. Duchess, check out THE SECRET OF SHABAZ under "Young Adult" in a couple of days.

I think the key is whether the reviewer is here to serve the reader or the author. "When the stars align," we get to do both.

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:36 am
by [Syl]
Gotta say, I've never really cared for reviews. I read the summary and see if anybody I respect recommends it, and that's about it.

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:23 am
by Variol Farseer
Dragonlily wrote:Farseer, I expected better of you. Less generalization, for one thing. "Hack writers are too likely to give sweetheart reviews." Two questionable generalizations in one sentence.
I don't make such generalizations without backing. (Before I go into detail, I'd like to know how you make (a) TWO generalizations out of that sentence, and (b) any generalizations at all. There are hack writers; in fact, most writers are reasonably describable as hacks, though hardly any of them would admit to it. It's one of those pie-for-breakfast things. There are also sweetheart reviews: i.e., reviews more favourable than the book in question deserves, motivated by reasons of personal camaraderie. The latter are frequently written by the former. And please reread the words 'too likely': the probability is nonzero. It is not 100% either, which is why I don't consider it a 'generalization'. That doesn't matter, though. In my opinion, any nonzero probability of a sweetheart review is too much — and too much is what I said it was.)

Now, an example of the prevailing mentality: the reviewer Herbert Gold made the mistake of actually admitting that he was friends with an author in a favourable review of his work. Here's what happened —
Herbert Gold wrote:The book-review editor rejected my notice by saying, 'we don't admit friendship plays any part in reviewing. If it does, we don't admit it.' And it was also clear that he was rejecting me for betraying the charade of objectivity.
(Source: Herbert Gold, 'Reviewmanship and the I-Wrote-A-Book Disease,' quoted in B.R. Myers, A Reader's Manifesto.)

It's a notorious phenomenon in the 'literary world': friends giving unjustifiably good reviews to friends, or to people they fear may give them reviews in future. You've noticed, perhaps, that hardly a novel is published without some glowing praise from a reviewer printed prominently on the dust jacket — and most of those books are awful. (As Theodore Sturgeon used to say, 90 percent of everything is crud.) Someone is not being honest. Someone is committing PR and uttering BS — and it happens thousands of times a year.
My other major point is, the job of a reviewer is not to write literature, it is to match the reader up with a book he/she will enjoy. There are readers who actually enjoy mindless repetitions of the same unlikely stories, and if we said "This is crap," they would miss out on their good times.
You overestimate your influence. The readers who enjoy mindless repetition know where to get it, and won't be talked out of it by reviews. Do you have any idea how many scathingly negative reviews Danielle Steel and Jackie Collins received during their careers? All the lambasting that the Times and the Globe and Kirkus could dish out could not prevent their books from selling untold millions of copies.
The author has the right to be understood, and the responsibility of making himself understood, to the appropriate level of readers.
That was true long before there was such a thing as a book reviewer, and will continue to be so when the last book reviewer goes to join his ancestors. And it is true right now in fields where most readers never encounter a book review except on jacket blurbs. Science fiction & fantasy are such a field, you know. The only periodicals I can think of offhand that review sf & f regularly and systematically are Locus, Science Fiction Chronicle, Asimov's, Analog, and Fantasy & Science Fiction. If every single reader of every one of those five magazines bought Robert Jordan's next book, and no one else did, it would be considered a colossal flop. None of those magazines has a paid circulation as high as 50,000, and their readership overlaps extensively.

The big reading public, you know, does not base its buying decisions on book reviews. Publisher's Weekly and Kirkus are sold only within the trade, and most newspapers review only a handful of books each week — or none at all, having found it impossibly difficult to sell advertising on book-review pages.

Tom Doherty, publisher of Tor Books, has told me what research shows are the top three reasons why readers buy books:

1. Name recognition — having read the same author before.

2. Physical package — the cover or jacket design, teaser, first few pages, and the general appearance of the book, inside and out.

3. Recommendations by word of mouth.

These three reasons account for about 75 percent of all trade-book sales. All others combined — that includes reviews, advertising, author tours, convention and conference gigs, you name it — account for the remaining 25 percent.

Don't get me wrong. Book reviewers can offer useful consumer advice, even useful literary criticism. But in my experience, the more famous a reviewer is, the higher his or her profile, especially if he or she reviews books in print for one of the big New York review publications, the less useful and honest those reviews tend to be. (It's a commonplace in publishing that if a book jacket contains a glowing review from Publisher's Weekly — and nothing else — it's a stinker. PW will praise anything. After all, it stays in business by selling advertising space to publishers.)

I applaud the work done by independent book reviewers such as yourself, and the comparatively small number of honest professionals left in the field. But I don't kid myself that your work is typical of the field, or that book reviews in general have any important effect on sales. That would just be wishful thinking.

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:24 pm
by duchess of malfi
Our local paper has a book reviewer. Yes, many of the books the person reviews are best sellers (and this person is not afraid to diss them if deserved). But every now and then the person will do a Sunday special where books from a certain genre are featured -- usually books not from the best seller list, from obscure authors.

I have purchased books based on this person's recommendations, and so far have greatly enjoyed every book the person glows about. :)

We also have a local music critic, movie critic, and theater critic. The only one I have problems with is the movie critic (that person disses films I think are wonderful, while giving Attack of the Clones the highest possible rating -- an all time classic! :o ) Like the book reviewer, I do not hesitate to purchase music based on the recommendations of the local critic -- and that person covers lots of obscure jazz, bluegrass, classical, folk, and other largely ignored fields of music. :)

Perhaps our local paper is the exception, not the rule. Maybe it is because of the huge university? Who knows? BUT maybe, just maybe book reviewing is perhaps not as dead as Tor books would have you believe?

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:18 am
by Variol Farseer
duchess of malfi wrote:Perhaps our local paper is the exception, not the rule. Maybe it is because of the huge university? Who knows? BUT maybe, just maybe book reviewing is perhaps not as dead as Tor books would have you believe?
Every year in the U.S., over 50,000 books are published. How many does your paper review? One percent of them? Two percent? If so, you probably do have an unusually large review section. (The average metropolitan newspaper devotes something like one page per week to book reviews.) Most books are published with no reviews at all except in trade publications like PW, and, in the case of nonfiction, specialized journals dealing with the same subject matter.

Meanwhile, reviewing is unquestionably in decline. The Boston Globe discontinued its standalone book-review section a few years ago; the New York Times Book Review has been slowly cutting back the number of pages in each issue for years; so have independent journals like the New York Review of Books. It's not a healthy market.

When a publicist draws up a marketing plan for an author these days, reviewers hardly even make the list of targets. In his book The Career Novelist. Donald Maass, one of the leading literary agents in the U.S., devotes a full chapter to self-promotion and marketing. He discusses signings, book tours, and lecture tours; local, regional, and national media; cons, symposia, and websites. The only thing he says about reviews is that publishers will send out review copies. And nowadays, many of those 'review' copies will go to bookstore managers and chain buyers, not to reviewers as such.

It's true, a well-written and cogent review can have a definite influence on hundreds or thousands of readers. But it will not influence the millions that a publisher must reach in order to make a profit. (And remember, you have to make millions aware of the book to get the ten or twenty thousand sales necessary to make a book pay. Out of all the books that have ever caught your eye, how many have you actually bought new in the bookshop?)

In the end, I'll take Tom Doherty's advice over anecdotal evidence from someone who doesn't work in the industry. He has been a professional publisher for 30 years or more, including 24 years running the company he founded (which is now the biggest and most critically-acclaimed sf & fantasy publisher in the world). It would be nice to believe that reviews make a big difference in the world, but you don't stay in business by believing nice things. To make a living, you have to face the facts. Mr. Doherty's numbers are based on extensive independent research, and borne out by his own decades of experience.

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:41 pm
by duchess of malfi
Variol Farseer wrote:
In the end, I'll take Tom Doherty's advice over anecdotal evidence from someone who doesn't work in the industry. He has been a professional publisher for 30 years or more, including 24 years running the company he founded (which is now the biggest and most critically-acclaimed sf & fantasy publisher in the world). It would be nice to believe that reviews make a big difference in the world, but you don't stay in business by believing nice things. To make a living, you have to face the facts. Mr. Doherty's numbers are based on extensive independent research, and borne out by his own decades of experience.
And what exactly was his advice in regard to reviewers? I felt Doherty's contempt in your earlier post towards books reviews and reviewers, but any specific advice did not register.

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:43 pm
by Variol Farseer
duchess of malfi wrote:And what exactly was his advice in regard to reviewers? I felt Doherty's contempt in your earlier post towards books reviews and reviewers, but any specific advice did not register.
He wasn't specifically giving advice on that point, but I can make a good guess at it from his actual policy at Tor. Mr. Doherty appears to believe in ignoring reviews and reviewers altogether, unless they say something that can usefully be quoted on a jacket blurb. (Not 'Gosh, wow, this is the next Tolkien, and this time I really mean it!' More like excerpts that specifically mention the strengths of the story, in such a way as to appeal to the kind of readers he thinks would be most interested in it. Of course, sometimes his editorial staff don't seem to get the message, and put the 'gosh, wow!' stuff on the blurb instead.)

Really, this is probably the most effective use of reviews, from a marketer's point of view. For instance, only a few thousand people will read a given review in Locus, prestigious though that magazine is in the industry; but if you put a quote from Locus on the book cover, every single person who picks up the book in a shop will have the chance to read it. Unfortunately, this causes some reviewers to concentrate on short, punchy, quotable takes, rather than examining the books they review in useful detail. (I'm not talking about Internet reviewers here, but chiefly of the reviewers from certain newspapers that often turn up in jacket blurbs — the Orlando Sentinel, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, and the like.)

But if you want real contempt for book reviewers, you have only to ask Norman Spinrad, who was a reviewer for many years himself, and knows the game from every angle. I would quote him, but this is getting to be very seriously off-topic!

:highjacked:

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:15 pm
by dANdeLION
Imaginarian wrote:Book reviewers are people who have nothing worth saying themselves that's why they have so much time to say things about other peoples books. Yet their commentary is somehow supposed to be worthwhile. Puzzling.

Oh, it's not puzzling at all, for those of us with brains. Here, let me simplify it for you.

Writers write books. Reviewers review books. Imaginarian wastes his own (and other people's) time by trying to criticise Reviewers (when all he succeeds at is lame-assed insults). The funny thing here is he is doing the same thing to Reviewers that he in his infinitely limited knowledge mistakenly believes Reviewers do to Writers, meaning we can logically conclude that Imaginarian is as far below the Reviewer as he believes the Reviewer is below the Writer.
:D

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:45 pm
by matrixman
Thanks for the info from Tor Books, Variol. It does put things into perspective. There's no questioning the importance of name recognition: in the case of Donaldson, I would read a book of his regardless of what any review says, though I'd still read the review out of insatiable curiosity.

Ah, this thread has turned into a bit of a spat (I took sides too) so let me get back to that Amazon review of Runes. Well, it's really just a teaser review. Guess they didn't want to spoil the story too much for people, but it's still more information than someone who hasn't read Runes would have liked. Oh, well, I have no one to blame but me: I'm responsible for controlling my own urges. :) Luckily, the book is only a couple of weeks away, so I'm not that upset.