Kevin's Watch

I just read these books for the first time. I am currently working on reading them in POV sequential order, to better see the story through each characters eyes. It IS frustrating, I am in fact about to freak, waiting for the next excellentbook. And just think; once the next book comes out, we could be waiting up to five years for the next one!!!!

Well, only a year more to wait, according to Martin (:P). Yeah, Feast will be good - I don't mind the wait so much, anyway. And we can be fairly confident that the later books won't take as long - we've been hearing a lot about how he's finding Feast more difficult to write than the others (perhaps because he never planned to cover the particular events in this book in as much detail).

And that's what I find odd.

I can't imagine having a five to six year gap in the action would do much for the series at all.

Sum sui generis
Vs

The gap was supposed to be between book One and Two of a trilogy. The problem came when book One became books One through Three, and he still continued to think of books Two and Three as being the same as he originally planned.

Martin is a master writer, revolutionizing the genre of medieval high fantasy.

His work ethic, not so good.

Stephen King says in Danse Macabre, and I'm inclined to agree with him, if an author takes six years to write a book, he's dicking around. Martin is not that far off.

Ohhhhh, burn.

Sum sui generis
Vs

I am not yet tired of waiting, as I just now bought "A Game Of Thrones". Hopefully, by the time I am caught up "Feast" will be out, which means I won't really have waited at all.

I base my harsh comments on the following simple math calculation:

If Martin wrote one-half page per day, he would have finished a 1460 page manuscript in four years. That's what, two or three paragraphs per day?

I don't think that's exactly burning up the word processor. That seems quite doable to me. Particularly with already established plot and characters.

Roland, I think your math is off by a factor of two. There are 1460 days in four years. (Actually 1461, if you count leap year.) So he would need to do a page per day. Still, your essential point stands.

Mind you, GRRM's plots are so complex and so tightly interwoven that it must take him at least as long to plan out the story as to write it. I myself am familiar with this process. Furthermore, it's often necessary for a writer to write two or three words for every word that eventually appears in print, what with revisions, corrections, and cutting to improve the pace of the book. Also, I hear that his health has not been good, so the work has been interrupted at various times.

To write a book the size of one of GRRM's volumes would take me about two years, assuming no major illness or other career-affecting disaster. But then, my stories are a good deal simpler than his.

"Aye, there's the rub, for in that sleep what dreams may come?"

We're being towed behind a slow boat, but it's the only stuff worth reading. I remember the same painful wait for the final Gap book. It's this or the escapist stuff. I've started a dozen of those and can't finish one. This is why we need a third or fourth author who writes this complex. We must find something to fill these gaps.

Being a writer, this topic has some level of personal significance, so reading some of it steams my clams (Roland ). I'd say further, but I'd be repeating a very similar discussion I had about this same exact subject. Plus, I'm not one for arguments like I used to be. Peace.

Khaliban wrote:It's this or the escapist stuff. I've started a dozen of those and can't finish one. This is why we need a third or fourth author who writes this complex. We must find something to fill these gaps.

Khaliban, have you tried Julian May's CONQUEROR'S MOON? I'd be interested to see if that fits your requirements.

Wow, you're right. Apparently math isn't my strong subject.

I think I was figuring 1460 pages in manuscript would be the equivalent of a 700 page novel, which is probably roughly what we'll get.

Oh, and sorry I steamed someone's clams, but again, we're talking a professional writer here who has earned his living at this for decades, not someone holding down another job while trying to make it in the field. And he's dealing with already established setting, characters and story. I just think four or more years is too long between volumes.

I apologize for singling you out. A bit brash and rash of me, to be sure. I should've just kept my mouth shut, but some things are impossible.

Anyway, here's my take on it.

Martin on June 16, 2004, wrote:For whatever reason, this fourth book has given me much more trouble than any of the earlier volumes. As of today, I have finished forty-eight chapters, and have another eighteen partially written. Half a dozen of them are within a few whiskers of completion. The good news is that I have recently completed the final Jaime chapter for this volume. I'm very close on Arya and Sansa too, and fairly close on Tyrion. The not-so-good news is that all the other viewpoints remain incomplete, and one crucial one is barely half-done. The prologue is giving me fits as well, but as of last night I think I may have solved it.

A lot more to the writing process than simply writing it. Question: Do any of you know if Martin had the entire plot for Feast established before he began writing it, or every character? Sure, the POV ones, but all of them? How can we know just how involved this project is for him? Do we know if he already had it all drawn out, or did he do it from scratch? He had originally planned on skipping this whole phase of the story and jumping a few years, remember? What hard facts are you culling from when you say Feast could be done in given amount of time/with given difficulty? I'm sensing snap judgments.

Which comes to my second point: How do you know what Martin is doing right now, or has been doing? Maybe you have sources that know, I don't know, but nobody has actually stepped up and said, "Yo, Martin is over here and he's done nothing on Feast." No real proof has been presented to me. As far as I know, he could be doing his best and working hard on it everyday. I see no reason to withhold benefit of the doubt.

Personally, I'm glad he's taking all the time he needs to finish this book and finish it correctly, rather than shelling out a potboiler to meet the demands of the starving masses. It'll be worth the wait, I'm sure. If it ends up not being worth it, then I’ll gladly join the chorus.

Frog, I understand where you're coming from . . . and all I can say is I've been reading fantasy for over thirty-five years, and Martin is writing this at a slower pace than any other author that I can recall. With the exception of King's Dark Tower, and at least King was writing numerous works in between, plus he never made any pretense that Dark Tower wasn't a lifework. I don't think Martin has made any such similar claims.

Now perhaps you're correct, and who wants a slapdash piece of garbage churned out in quicker time?

However, this didn't happen with the earlier volumes. Martin kept up the incredibly high level with Clash and Storm - some readers even say he improved . . . so I have no doubt that Feast would have kicked ass, literarily speaking, in less than the five years we're going to have to wait to see it. And five years is just best guess . . . it may be a longer wait than that.

True, all true. To clarify, I understand where you're coming from too. I found out about/read all the Martin books in the month of February around last year. Or was it this year? Ah, memory! Anyway, I can understand a person being impatient about it if they've been following it from the time the books first came out.

Actually, I've been waiting for Melanie Rawn's The Captal's Tower for about 5 years now....

It's all too easy to say something is all too easy, when you're not in the other person's shoes. Judging what an artist "should" be doing has been a tempting spectator sport for centuries. The watcher can kick off his shoes and eat a sandwich while the artist streams sweat into the sand.

I'm looking forward to CROWS too, but there are plenty of other things for (most of ) us to read.

Oh, believe me, Dragonlily, I'm not sitting around moping, waiting for Martin to blow me away with A Feast for Crows.

Just finished Dark Tower VII, and have numerous "biggies" just around the corner. The Runes of the Earth, of course.

And Paul Kearney's The Sea Beggars, Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, F. Paul Wilson's latest Repairman Jack novel, Criss-Cross, Dave Duncan's Impossible Odds and The Jaguar Knights, and Neal Stephenson's Quicksilver.

Is Martin one of the very best writers on the planet? In my opinion, yes he is. Is he my reason for reading? Hell, no.