Kevin's Watch

The Elohim have gone through the Land; warning people of the halfhand... why?

Who's the "Halfhand" that the Elohim refer to? Thomas? Or Jeremiah?

With the coming of the Halfhand, the Earth will suffer it's final peril

So what's that about?

Perhaps an entirely new halfhand that we haven't met yet?

Personally, I believe that they're referring to Berek the Betrayer. The person who first allowed Foul to recover by releasing the Earthpower in the Land.

Don't forget the Humbled......

Romeo wrote:Perhaps an entirely new halfhand that we haven't met yet?

Personally, I believe that they're referring to Berek the Betrayer. The person who first allowed Foul to recover by releasing the Earthpower in the Land.

I'll take this opinion more seriously than anyone else's on this board... as your knowledge exceeds mine...

Darth Revan wrote:

Romeo wrote:Perhaps an entirely new halfhand that we haven't met yet?

Personally, I believe that they're referring to Berek the Betrayer. The person who first allowed Foul to recover by releasing the Earthpower in the Land.

I'll take this opinion more seriously than anyone else's on this board... as your knowledge exceeds mine...

Actually, it does not. And if it did, I wouldn't/couldn't say anything - I'm about as anti-spoilers as they come.

So this is entirely speculation. I have no significant knowledge past the end of Runes. But it definately fits with the history of the Land. (I have another lengthy post somewhere with the supporting details, so I won't repeat them here.)

And it fits with the kind of surprises we get from SRD. This would mean that the Clave was right when they labeled Berek as "the original betrayer." And it would mean that the Haruchai were correct about Earthpower in Runes. Both ideas that we as lovers of the Land quickly and vehemently reject, but ... what if it was the ultimate truth?

ah... I understand now... and Foul never did tur up until the first Earthpower was used, did he?

Maybe, Foul was really weak and reduced... (probaby from being cast down by the creator) and the awakening of Earthpower enabled him to heal...

Food for thought...

Earthpower existed in the Land long before Berek "discovered" it on the slopes of Mount Thunder. The One Forest was alive with Earthpower, the Colossus of the Fall was created from a being of pure Earthpower, and the Forestals were created beings of pure Earthpower.

But Romeo's comments, taken together with Runes, is certainly thought provoking. Will have to ponder this for a while.......

A agree - it was always there. But until Berek discovered it, I don't think it was actively used. And then he ran off and made the first Staff of Law, which probably helped Foul recover even more. After that there was an explosion of Earthpower use.

Romeo wrote: But until Berek discovered it, I don't think it was actively used. And then he ran off and made the first Staff of Law, which probably helped Foul recover even more. After that there was an explosion of Earthpower use.

I strongly suspect that the major theme of the next few books will be all about how wrong Linden Avery has been in everything she has said, done and thought in this first book. Berek the Betrayer would fit nicely with that.

Yeah... you know the ur-Viles said (or so Esmer translated) that her purpose (Finding the Staff of Law) would serve their former master?

Well here is the reason why I think that is... foul might not have been that strong... because the Staff was hidden... and because there is no Staff from the day Linden recovered it to the day Linden brought it back to her current time; Foul could heal and grow stronger because the Staff isn't there...

I'm not sure if I'm being clear or not... but if you do understand, give your thoughts on the matter!

Thinking back to LFB, Foul wanted the Lords to get the SoL back from Drool because Drool was a threat to him, and because with the Staff Drool would find the Illearth Stone (which Foul wanted desperately.) Once the Illearth Stone was in his possession, Foul was the most powerful being in the Land - until Covenant came to understand the wild magic.

Now bounce forward 3500 years, and the Sunbane is in control of the Land. Foul himself had no great power (at least that we've ever been made to understand.) SRD himself has said that Foul's greatest ability is "withering scorn."

So now, Foul seems to be reduced somewhat, and is purely manipulating events (much as he did in 1st Chronicles.)

Darth Revan wrote:foul might not have been that strong... because the Staff was hidden... and because there is no Staff from the day Linden recovered it to the day Linden brought it back to her current time; Foul could heal and grow stronger because the Staff isn't there...

I think it's absolutely clear that this is the case. The Haruchai more or less said that would happen before she did what she did. Moreover, I think it highly likely that the thing that happens on the last page was made possible only by the removal of the Staff. Its return may therefore have some interesting consequences. Linden Avery may even have to destroy it...

Spoiler

...to save her son and her lover.

Ahh... very much so. But this is another reason why I think Thomas is Foul. Thomas encouaged her to get the Staff.... but he must have known it was folly...

The Elohim warn to beware of the halfhand. The strange servant woman in Revelstone, whose name eludes me, warned that love could be a bad thing. Covenant himself warned Linden to beware of him, if memory serves. On that basis, I think Covenant is going to be a very bad thing. But he also asked Linden to find him. Does this mean that he has somehow lost complete control of himself? The caesures are essential punctures in the Arch, and since the events of WGW, Covenant is the Arch... Have the caesures also damaged him?

Romeo wrote:A agree - it was always there. But until Berek discovered it, I don't think it was actively used. And then he ran off and made the first Staff of Law, which probably helped Foul recover even more. After that there was an explosion of Earthpower use.

Actually it was - by the forrests!

SRD - Illearth War wrote:Despite was the bane of men. It came with them into the Land from the cold anguish of the north, and from the hungry kingdom of the south.

and

SRD - Illearth War wrote:No, the Colossus of the Fall forbade another foe-three tree- and soil-hating brothers who were old in the Spoiled Plains before Lord Foul first cast his shadow there.

show that Earthpower had been used to create the Colossus of the Fall prior to LF even arriving. It just took Berek to bring Earthpower to men. Hmmmm ... I wonder how LF impacted men prior to being in the Land?

CovenantJr wrote:The Elohim warn to beware of the halfhand. The strange servant woman in Revelstone, whose name eludes me, warned that love could be a bad thing. Covenant himself warned Linden to beware of him, if memory serves. On that basis, I think Covenant is going to be a very bad thing. But he also asked Linden to find him. Does this mean that he has somehow lost complete control of himself? The caesures are essential punctures in the Arch, and since the events of WGW, Covenant is the Arch... Have the caesures also damaged him?

No, I think he is Foul, because, if you think about it, then you'll remember that Thomas "accepted" Foul.. so I think foul has become a part of him.

I disagree

Can you please make your sig shorter Roger?

Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion... Mine is pobably wrong... it's only a guess.

Romeo wrote:Perhaps an entirely new halfhand that we haven't met yet?

Personally, I believe that they're referring to Berek the Betrayer. The person who first allowed Foul to recover by releasing the Earthpower in the Land.

I may be missing something entirely, but I always thought that the shadow cast over the King (in the legend of Berek Halfhand) was Foul. From LFB, "But after a time a shadow came over the heart of the King. He tasted the power of life and death over those who served him, and learned to desire it." This sounds like a lesson taught by the Despiser, who "laughs at lepers".

Further, "[The King's] nights were spent in dark quests for more power, and by day he exercised that power, becoming hungrier and more cruel as the lust overcame him." Again, in the mythos of the Land, this sounds like an exertion of the Despiser.

The clincher, to me, is here: "But as the battle raged, a gray cloud from the east, fell over the hosts. The Queen's defenders were stricken at heart, and their strength left them. But her enemies found a power of madness in the shadow. They forgot their humanity - they chopped and trampled and clawed and bit and maimed and defiled until their gray onslaught whelmed the heroes, and Berek's comrades broke one by one into despair and death. So the battle went until Berek was the last hater of the shadow alive. [...] At the last the King himself, filled with the fear and madness of the shadow, challenged Berek, and they fought."

The King turns Berek's blade, Berek runs to Mount Thunder, encounters the Earthpower and the Fire Lions, and, as they say, the rest is history.

Like I said, I could be missing something somewhere (and I've yet to read The Runes of the Earth, so perhaps there's something within those pages that turns this legend to rot), but this legend, as it stands in Lord Foul's Bane, speaks - to mind at least - clearly of the interference of the Despiser.

Quite so. I believe the King was possessed by a Raver, certainly under Foul's command. But I think the "Berek the Betrayer" comment is relevant to the current situation. Foul recovers because of Earthpower. Berek was the first person to use Earthpower. In the current climate, particularly given the Haruchai's reasons for their Mastery, Berek could indeed be viewed as the one who facilitated everything Foul has done since then.

Darth Revan wrote:Can you please make your sig shorter Roger?

My sig is one line If you're talking about my posts being big, it's not my sig - it's my avatar. All we Edge-ites have these big gaps, because his avatars are bigger than the standard KW ones.