Kevin's Watch

...Nom.

I tend to project myself into plot-driven novels, imagining what I would do or say if I were in the protagonists' place. That's largely an exercise in futility in the Covenant novels, since they're so character driven. "Well, I'd decide the Land was real and blast them with my ring!" rather misses the whole point of the redemptive path the novels take.

The most recent book seems more plot driven, however, so I'm left thinking about what I would have done in Linden's place. And I think one of the first things I might have done in the Land is spoken Nom's name. The raver-consuming Sandgorgon is presumably long-lived enough to have survived to the present day, powerful enough to give Linden options, intelligent enough to give her another perspective on the Land's troubles, and presumably grateful enough to be of some help.

There's risk involved, of course. Nom may have reverted to a more savage state. If he released the other Sandgorgons from the Doom, he might be the only force restraining them from wreaking havoc. Still, it's a lot less risky than playing games with the Falls and the Law of Time, right?

Spoiler

Also, as soon as I heard the Demondium were wielding a Fall to tap the Illearth Stone, I'd start planning to shut down that Fall with the Staff of Law the way I did the other. I'm assuming Linden will attempt that early in the next Novel.

Say...if you were a Sandgorgon, would you wonder if Demondiums tasted like Raver?

So, in Linden's place, what might YOU have done?

Here's a BETTER question...

If/when someone does say it, what is going to show up?

There didn't seem to be any suggestion in the Second Chronicles that sandgorgons were immortal, or even particularly long-lived.

So if Nom is summonned ...

And the Law of Death is still broken ...

Do we get a sandgorgon mummy?

YIKES!!

Romeo wrote:Do we get a sandgorgon mummy?

A Nommy?

White Wraith wrote:...Nom.

I tend to project myself into plot-driven novels, imagining what I would do or say if I were in the protagonists' place. That's largely an exercise in futility in the Covenant novels, since they're so character driven. "Well, I'd decide the Land was real and blast them with my ring!" rather misses the whole point of the redemptive path the novels take.

The most recent book seems more plot driven, however, so I'm left thinking about what I would have done in Linden's place. And I think one of the first things I might have done in the Land is spoken Nom's name. The raver-consuming Sandgorgon is presumably long-lived enough to have survived to the present day, powerful enough to give Linden options, intelligent enough to give her another perspective on the Land's troubles, and presumably grateful enough to be of some help.

There's risk involved, of course. Nom may have reverted to a more savage state. If he released the other Sandgorgons from the Doom, he might be the only force restraining them from wreaking havoc. Still, it's a lot less risky than playing games with the Falls and the Law of Time, right?

Spoiler

Also, as soon as I heard the Demondium were wielding a Fall to tap the Illearth Stone, I'd start planning to shut down that Fall with the Staff of Law the way I did the other. I'm assuming Linden will attempt that early in the next Novel.

Say...if you were a Sandgorgon, would you wonder if Demondiums tasted like Raver?

So, in Linden's place, what might YOU have done?

1) I dont think speaking its name would summon it. The whole idea is a by-product of Sandgorgons Doom, the flaw in the perfection as Kasreyn of the Gyre would no doubt say, and Sandgorgons Doom is ended. Yeah, Covenant summoned him again - the creature had essentially given its service to the Ur-Lord, so Im guessing it would not have come for anyone else. Additionally, Covenant released it.
2) If Linden could summon it, Im not sure it would be a good idea to do so. There is some indication that something is amiss with the Sandgorgons. It may very well be that Noms rending of the Raver led to some kind of evil - my totally unfounded current theory is that a Sandgorgon is responsible for freeing Kastenessen. In any event, Linden couldnt be sure of what she would be getting if she spoke the name - this alone should keep her from attempting it.

Also, Nom was indebted to Covenant, not Linden. I see no reason to believe he wouldn't just mash her.

Nom could be dead--although I think the Sandgorgons are as immortal as the desert--and he could refuse the summoning. Still, isn't it worth trying? I can't really imagine him squishing Linden: after rending the Raver, Nom is a profoundly different being. He works under Linden's supervision, and later he feels enough sympathy or gratitude for Honninscrave that he builds a cairn to him.

I guess what I'm really saying here is that I want to see how the years have changed Nom. I'd like to think that he's still a positive force. If the Sandgorgons have become a problem, I'd be willing to bet it's the others that are the trouble, not Nom.

White Wraith wrote:Nom could be dead--although I think the Sandgorgons are as immortal as the desert--and he could refuse the summoning. Still, isn't it worth trying? I can't really imagine him squishing Linden: after rending the Raver, Nom is a profoundly different being. He works under Linden's supervision, and later he feels enough sympathy or gratitude for Honninscrave that he builds a cairn to him.

I guess what I'm really saying here is that I want to see how the years have changed Nom. I'd like to think that he's still a positive force. If the Sandgorgons have become a problem, I'd be willing to bet it's the others that are the trouble, not Nom.

Yes, but if you were actually in Lindens place, would you genuinely want to take the risk of summoning Nom? As all of the events in the Last Chronicles attest to, after three and and a half thousand years, anything could have changed. Even if he were still alive (and Im doubtful of this) what if the rending eventually turned Nom completely evil, or what if he simply refused to serve Linden? What then? I think its too big of a risk to take.

Agreed. If I was actually there, trying to do my best to save my kid and the world, I don't think I'd seriously consider something so unpredictable and potentially fatal.

King Elessar 8 wrote:
Yes, but if you were actually in Lindens place, would you genuinely want to take the risk of summoning Nom?

It seems like less of a risk than what she actually did do...

But what would Nom do? Who would Nom destroy? The Masters? It's not apparent

Spoiler

until the very end

that such a thing is even worth considering. And even then...

That's the problem right now: there's no "clear and present danger". Nom couldn't attack Kevin's Dirt. He can't attack Foul, as we don't even know where he is. He could attack Esmer, but Esmer is Elohim, so that would probably be fruitless.

I don't see what purpose he would serve.

The Elohim also mentioned Sandgorgons in their warning (along with the croyel, the merewives and the skurj). What if a sandgorgon has gained the aid of a croyel and they are now wreaking absolute havoc on the other side of the Earth? The might (just might) honor Nom's promise about the Bhrathair, and the Elohim would be more than equal to them, but no one else, not even the Giants, would be safe from them.
Hmm. Maybe the Giants will end up fleeing across the sea for refuge if that's the case?

Aleksandr wrote:The Elohim also mentioned Sandgorgons in their warning (along with the croyel, the merewives and the skurj). What if a sandgorgon has gained the aid of a croyel and they are now wreaking absolute havoc on the other side of the Earth? The might (just might) honor Nom's promise about the Bhrathair, and the Elohim would be more than equal to them, but no one else, not even the Giants, would be safe from them.
Hmm. Maybe the Giants will end up fleeing across the sea for refuge if that's the case?

I dont think the Sandgorgons needed the Croyel for this purpose - Im pretty sure Noms rending of the Raver led to evil, in some way or another. My theory on the Sandgorgons freeing Kastenessen goes like this: I doubt he could have freed himself, and whatever did it had to be of great might. The croyel only work through others. I suppose Esmer himself might have done it, but I can easily see a Sandgorgon (probably because of the Raver) breaking whatever barrier was imprisoning the Elohim.

I bet SRD ENDS the second book with "Nom ....."

What better cliffhanger to surpass the first book?!

Creator wrote:I bet SRD ENDS the second book with "Nom ....."

What better cliffhanger to surpass the first book?!

Nah...he's already ended a chapter in that way. I don't see SRD relying on the same device twice.

How long before we hear Mhoram say..."It boots nothing..."?

Or a Giant say "Joy is in the ears that hear"

Gunslinger, we may not agree on Stephen King - and that's fine, everyone has their own tastes - but I sure as

Spoiler

shit

agree with your signature.

burgs66 wrote:Gunslinger, we may not agree on Stephen King - and that's fine, everyone has their own tastes - but I sure as

Spoiler

shit

agree with your signature.

AWRIGHT!

The LA Times website (www.latimes.com) has an interesting electoral map. It's under politics. You have to subscribe, but it's free, and the electoral map will give you more information about where everyone stands in the race than just about anything.

Yes, I know,

Sorry.

From WGW, Chapter 12:

Cail: "Nom desires you to comprehend that it acknowledges you. It will obey any command. But it asks that you do not command it. It wishes to be free. It wishes to return to its home in the Great Desert and its bound kindred. From the rending of the Raver, Nom has gained knowledge to unmake Sandgorgon's Doom - to release its kind from pent fury and anguish. It seeks your permission to depart."

Kaseryn made the Doom to contain the Sandgorgons, and withing the Doom he placed the "imperfection" that would allow a Sandgorgon to be freed for a short period of time. Once Nom causes the Doom to go away, there would be no force to compel a Sandgorgon anywhere if its name were spoken aloud. In other words, we're free to say "Nom" as much as we want.