Kevin's Watch

I simply cannot believe how much my opinion of Lebbick changes every time I read MN. The first time I read it, I hated him. I simply could not believe the gruesome things that he did to Terisa. I kept saying to myself "and this dude is supposed to be one of the good guys?!"

My second and third reads though, my god. I cried for the man on my most recent read. He has been so hurt. He is disgusted by what he sees around him, by his past, and by his own inner feelings. Later on, he even becomes disgusted by his own actions.

God bless Artagal for being a kind, understanding guy. What really burns me was how close he was to being healed when he got a sword through his midsection. (at least, that is how I thought of it.)

What did you all think of him? Did your opinions change too?

I liked Lebbick from the get go--it was the way Joyse and Eremis played him that really pissed me off...

I can't really remember what my first impressions of him were, but on successive re-reads, I must say I agreed with The Dreaming.

The poor guy was so abandoned and manipulated, you have to feel sorry for him, and I think that everytime I read it, I empathise with him more.

I can't remember if he actually learned that his faithfullness was justified, or if he died unknowing?

--Avatar

I believe that he died unknowing -- and that he seemed happy to die, and at last get a release from his suffering.

Yeah, suffering that, while perhaps necessary in Joyce's scheme, he could easily have been relieved of.

Poor bugger.

--A

Well... I wouldn't marry him...

Yeah, he was a decent guy... suffered a lot Which was a shame... and Joyse was horrid to him.

I wouldn't marry him, either.

But his fate does show the very real cost that Joyse's plans had to some very loyal people, doesn't it?

I hated Lebbick the first time I read him, too. But then I started discussing him here, and I changed my mind. I still think he's rather horrible, and does quite a lot of loathesome things, but at the same time I pity him hugely. Besides, anyone Artagel likes has to have been an okay guy at some time or other.

Yes, he is rather loathsome at times, especially in the way he treats Terisa...but we are also seeing a very emotionally conflicted man hitting rock bottom...

I think, if not for what happened to his wife when he was young, and for what's going on with Joyse in his present, he would probably be a pretty decent guy. Artagel's friendship definately points towards that...

How awesome was Lebbick? Very, in terms of his towering, me-against-the-world fury. As defender of Orison, he could have been very awesome, too, had he been allowed to do his job without his authority being undermined by Joyse's strategy. That's the great tragedy of Lebbick. Master Quillon and the King thought they could push Lebbick to the edge without him breaking, but they miscalculated. He paid the price for their misjudgment.

Matrixman wrote:That's the great tragedy of Lebbick. Master Quillon and the King thought they could push Lebbick to the edge without him breaking, but they miscalculated. He paid the price for their misjudgment.

True enough. But although he broke, I don't think he could be said to have failed. Despite everything, he tried always to do his job as he saw it, and regardless of how much it hurt him or anyone else.

(I'm going to have to re-read these as soon as I get a chance.)

--Avatar

Ah, Lebbick..he served his country and King with true heart. Even his madness served Mordant's need

Lebbick was the MAN!

Maybe my favorite character.

And you've got to love how he went down fighting on defense of others... That's always struck me as the real Lebbick, the man he would have been without all of the manipulations, coming through...

The Dreaming wrote:...my god. I cried for the man on my most recent read.

I know what you mean. I reread the series just last month. I didn't know that Runes of the Earth had come out until I saw it in the library. I was so friggin' excited that SRD was at it again. I had read every book of his before...numerous times. I poured through half of Runes in one day before I had to leave. I owed a few bucks to the library, and was short that day, so I couldn't check it out. So I did the only logical thing I could think of; I hid it.

The next day I went in and it was gone *sniffle* So instead I decided to reread MN again...and I'm glad I did. *now to the topic at hand* I started sniffling in the library as I read Lebbick's plight. It had been years since I had read MN, and I had forgotten how much pain that poor old codger had gone through. I hated what his insanity forced him to do, but it also helped him achieve a certain level of grace, grim as it was. The part that made me snuffle loud enough for the other patrons to notice me, is one of the, if not the, most powerful sentences of the entire story.

"I AM LOYAL TO MY KING!"


Man that hurt. Poor Lebbick.

"A grim grace". Man, I like that.

--Avatar

Thanks. I'd like to take credit, but I'm pretty sure it was either the mushrooms or the dog that came up with that.

I suspect that it was the mushrooms. If it was the dog, it was probably still the mushrooms.

--A

Lebbick's anger and rage - through my recent reading of MN - reminded me of Angus a bit. Certainly not in motivation, but in his capacity for harm. And his desire to cause harm.

That said (I imagine I'll be burned for saying it, and what is to follow), I don't think that SRD "wounded" him enough to cause his anger, rage, hurt, etc. Yes, he lost his wife, Joyse's treatment of him was intolerable, but frankly reading this with much more discernment at 39 than in my teens, I found his motivation lacking.

That's just my take on it. I could be wrong. But I don't always agree with how SRDs characters react to their "wounds".

HOWEVER, I do wish he had died knowing what Joyse's plans were. And his loyalty to Joyse was an impressive characteristic.

Interesting view Burgs, (you're sneaking out of the Runes forum more and more (Come visit the 'Tank... ) ).

Perhaps you're right that he wasn't wounded enough...I dunno, always thought he was wounded plenty, although more because of Joyse's treatment of him than anything else.

The loss (and brutal rape) of his wife, and the revenge that Joyse made possible for him to take, was more like "laying the foundation" for that future, deeper wounding by Joyse himself, the very man who'd made it possible for him to begin healing, and then ripped away not only that scab, but cut further wounds into him.

His loyalty to Joyse in the face of that is what I always found more surprising...Joyse's current actions scarcely inspired it, so it was based purely on that earlier rescue...compelling, but surely greatly undermined by his subsequent treatment.

--A