Kevin's Watch

In all the years I’ve been listening to music I’ve never let an artist’s social, political or spiritual beliefs get in the way of my appreciating said artist’s music. There have been artists/songwriters that have had diametrically opposite views on nearly everything, even existence itself, to that of my own and it has not altered my enjoyment of the artist’s work. I don’t think Satan is cool. I don’t think shooting police officers is cool. I don’t think drug abuse is cool. The list goes on and on yet I’ve still managed to listen and enjoy the craftsmanship, the artistry, the imagination of many talented individuals.
Now I have to offer a BUT.
I’d didn’t mean to do this it just happened.
Since my teens I’ve been a Pretenders fan. I liked the way Crissy Hynde (sp) sings and her writing style. (Though her ability to write a collection of songs that wildly vacillate from love to extreme hate for the men in her lyrics can be distracting). In a word I was a fan. Not a big fan but a fan nonetheless. I had attended concerts in the 80s and enjoyed them. I had no problems. Then my wife and I went to a concert a couple of years ago. I was happy to have gotten the tickets and the seats were pretty good. I expected to enjoy the show. Though the Pretenders hadn’t occupied my thoughts in years, I had heard a few things about Crissy Hynde the activist. I didn’t give it much thought one way or another. Frankly if science can find a way to create a steak out of sand and recycled newspapers, and I couldn’t tell the difference, I would become a vegetarian. But having said that I in fact eat hamburgers and steak and pepperoni on my pizza. You may already know where I’m going with this. During the show Crissy took a few moments to express her views on animal rights. I can’t tell you why I was affected the way I was but I must have been in one of those moods. Anyway, Crissy is apparently not the kind of woman who minces words and before she concluded her speech she told the crowd that if you eat meat you can all go f*** yourselves. Again, I seemed to be in a mood that night and I managed to take her comments as a personal affront. I remember my wife (who had never been to a Pretenders concert before) turned to me with a disgusted look on her face and asked if Crissy was always this rude. I said no and I totally agreed with my wife’s reaction.
Now to the point of this thread. I have not been able to listen to the Pretenders once since that concert without thinking of how I felt that night. Don’t get me wrong (which is the title of a Pretenders song) I don’t have any kind of problem with Crissy speaking her mind and I feel badly that I’ve let this incident affect the way I perceive a musical artist but it happened and I can’t seem to change how I feel. I can think of no other artist that I’ve ever been exposed to that has managed to turn me off quite this way.
Have you ever had an experience like this? For example has a band’s drummer ever hit on your girlfriend? Committed a crime you can’t forgive? Sold out? I’m sure some of you have changed your minds about a musician purely due to something they did outside of his or her music.

If the music clicks for me, I don't care if the performer once spat in a fan's face (Roger Waters) or dressed in a Nazi outfit (Keith Moon). Hell, if I liked the music of Charles Manson (I don't), I'd judge the music as a separate entity from the man. Maybe that's wrong, but that's me.

Then again, if a drummer were to hit on my girlfriend (not that I've ever had one, unless elementary school counts), I'd be pissed, yeah, but I've only been to one concert in my life, so no chance for that stuff to happen to me.

I would've been offended by Hynde's comments and I would've left the concert.

I don't always let the artist get in the way of their talent. It's just according to the situation at hand. My wife likes the Dixie Chicks (God help her) and a couple of years ago I was planning on getting her a couple of CDs as part of her birthday present - then the lead singer made her famous comments in London and I changed my mind. If I'm watching country videos and a Dixie Chick video comes on, I change the channel.

On the other hand, both Sean Penn and Tim Robbins made similar comments and my wife and I both went to see Mystic River and enjoyed it.

Difficult question to answer. I guess it depends on how much I like the performer or artist

Honestly, I don't think their views have much effect on my appreciation. I've always liked Bruce Springsteen but when a musician or artist uses his/her notoriety to advance a political cause I disregard them. I've realized that being able to play the guitar or sing does not give anyone any unique insight into the truth...It just gives them a wider audience.

Everybody has a right to an opinion, and to share it...even if their method crosses a subjective line of sorts. I don't let artists opinions guide my appreciation of the art (Springsteen) or non-appreciation of product (Keith) someone may create.

Hynde went a bit too far, but "Chain Gang" is no less a great song.

The Dixie Chicks were never a favorite of mine, nor are they today despite my appreciation for their political grand standing.

Well, since I knew Neil Young would never "sell out" his views on commercialism (This Note's For You) and record company profiteering (especially v. David Geffen) only enhanced his image in my book. And, when Pearl Jam took on Ticketmaster I said "Right on! Score one for the fans!" However, when I found out that Jimi Hendrix had beaten his girlfriend I never forgave him...


Don't want no cash
Don't need no money
Ain't got no stash
This note's for you.

Ain't singin' for Pepsi
Ain't singin' for Coke
I don't sing for nobody
Makes me look like a joke
This note's for you.

Ain't singin' for Miller
Don't sing for Bud
I won't sing for politicians
Ain't singin' for Spuds
This note's for you.

Don't need no cash
Don't want no money
Ain't got no stash
This note's for you.

I've got the real thing
I got the real thing, baby
I got the real thing
Yeah, alright.

danlo wrote:Well, since I knew Neil Young would never "sell out" his views on commercialism (This Note's For You) and record company profiteering (especially v. David Geffen) only enhanced his image in my book. And, when Pearl Jam took on Ticketmaster I said "Right on! Score one for the fans!" However, when I found out that Jimi Hendrix had beaten his girlfriend I never forgave him...


Don't want no cash
Don't need no money
Ain't got no stash
This note's for you.

Ain't singin' for Pepsi
Ain't singin' for Coke
I don't sing for nobody
Makes me look like a joke
This note's for you.

Ain't singin' for Miller
Don't sing for Bud
I won't sing for politicians
Ain't singin' for Spuds
This note's for you.

Don't need no cash
Don't want no money
Ain't got no stash
This note's for you.

I've got the real thing
I got the real thing, baby
I got the real thing
Yeah, alright.

Remember when MTV refused to play the video for this song because the sponsors started crying (back when MTV still had some semblance of musical worth)? Neil said " We learned today that the M in MTV is for 'money'."

Compelling and complicated topic, TOM. Or maybe I'm just making it more complicated for myself than it needs to be. The artists that I like tend to have social/political views that jive with my own in the first place. I think this is a separate issue from that of abusive behaviour by an artist. So it's really not that you have a problem with Chrissie Hynde's views, but the hostile way in which she proclaimed them. Am I warm?

I'd like to get everyone's thoughts on this: is it the fact that it's a woman who is being aggressive and swearing that upsets people, because we expect women--even women rockers-- to be demur and "feminine" in how they address others? What if it had been a respected male singer like, say, Neil Young, on that stage ? Would we have been as upset? Or would we have just shrugged our shoulders and said, "Ahh, that's just good ol' Neil speaking his mind..."

I'm not dumping on you, TOM, so let me say right now I'm sorry if it might come across that way. But you've made me think about this, and I felt I had to make a point about gender hypocrisy in rock music. I definitely have opinions on that subject, but I think I'm already close to hijacking this thread.

Anyway, I look forward to your comments. Even if it's along the lines of "go f*** yourself." <--- the smiley symbol for "take your best shot."

No, MM. I think you got the point from my original post just fine. I did make it clear that the view expressed during that Pretenders concert wasn't what struck me so askew it was the foul way and the venue in which it was presented. I can't say in every instance but in this case under these circumstances I would have felt attacked no matter who was on stage. I admit that I don't frequent concerts like I did a few years ago but I suppose the artists I am willing to spend money on these days would be considered "seasoned professionals". Though I would expect biting commentary if I went to see The Clash back in 1983 I don't expect much but total graciousness from the artist I generally go to see these days ie Peter Frampton, Tom Petty, Styx, Rush etc. I'm used to a lot of "You guys were a great audience. We love you!" Not "F OFF!"
I do see your point about there being a double standard for "aggressive women" and I agree with your view. But at this event after spending like 80 bucks on tickets I didn't want to be attacked that way by anyone.

Well the main reason I don't listen to hip-hop is the socially undesirable and sometimes even hateful opinions expressed by some of its artists.

The right-wing rants that punctuated Morrissey's solo career have always put me off buying his albums, but haven't stopped me enjoying the Smiths.

I've never fully understood the furore over the Dixie Chicks, to be honest. Didn't they just say the Bush made them ashamed to be Texan? Compared to Michael Moore, I'd say that's pretty mild.

If an artist wants to express any political opinion in a public way, that's fine, but they shouldn't complain about any backlash to their actions in terms of boycotts, etc. by those that disagree with them.

I don't think that the Dixie Chicks suffered any lasting harm from the one's statement. In a certain way it probably helped them with those who agreed with what they said.

The only one that comes to mind for having her career destroyed in the U.S. by expressing her opinion was Sinead O'Connor, after she tore up the Pope's picture on Saturday Night Live. The reaction was immediate and extremely negative.

I think it's a shame that Sinead O'Connor courted controversy to the extent that she did. When people remember her, her actions will almost completely overshadow her music.

Sinead O'Connor is a classic example of someone who got marginalized by the public at large and the media because she stood up to make a statement that was unpopular. Her music is largely unknown to me, but she immediately gained my support when she took a stand against the Pope. I am not in awe of the Pope and I don't care for the holier-than-thou power his position wields over people.

It told me a lot about people's intolerance for O'Connor when I overheard people at my workplace deriding her as "Skinhead O'Connor." Yes, turn her into some kind of extremist freak in order to invalidate her.

Eh, don't like bald chicks anyway.

I don't stand for Sinead O'Conner and the holier than thou power her position wields.

Watters does make me cringe sometimes, but he DID write the Wall mostly in self-horror at spitting on the fan. I really cringed though when I saw Sinead O'Conner sing Mother at Live in Berlin. The song has just never been the same.

The Dreaming wrote:I don't stand for Sinead O'Conner and the holier than thou power her position wields.

Watters does make me cringe sometimes, but he DID write the Wall mostly in self-horror at spitting on the fan. I really cringed though when I saw Sinead O'Conner sing Mother at Live in Berlin. The song has just never been the same.

I'm glad I haven't heard it yet. Here's another reason why I don't like Sinead:

Spoiler

Roger Waters: "It was very, very hard work organizing that Wall concert but everyone was fabulous to work with - Bryan Adams, Van Morrison, Cyndi Lauper, bloody brilliant. All brilliant. Except for Sinead O'Connor. Oh, God! I have never ever met anybody who is so self-involved and unprofessional and big-headed and unpleasant. She is so far up her own bum it's scary. With The Wall, she was so worried that there weren't any other (_adopts Irish "brogue"_) 'young people on the show'. I and everybody else were old farts in her opinion so she was worried that she was doing something that wasn't 'street' enough. And because it wasn't 'street' enough, she came up with this brilliant idea: she said that I should employ Ice-T or one of those people to re-work one of my songs as a rap number! I am not joking! And neither was she fucking joking! That's the sad thing - she was serious! And then a couple of months after the show, when the record was out, she did an interview on American television, millions of viewers, and she rubbished the whole thing, said the Wall concert was a load of wank. I don't give a fuck what she thought about it but she should have kept her fucking mouth shut because it could only hurt the charity, the memorial fund and everything that Leonard (Cheshire) had done. She doesn't understand anything. She's just a silly little girl. You can't just lie in the corner and shave your bloody head and stick up your arse and occasionally pull it out to go (_"brogue"_) 'Oh, I tink this is wrong and dat is wrong' and burst into tears."

Anyway, Waters never really makes me cringe; I always enjoy the wit/sarcasm/overall humor he bestows. Connor is more of a pretentious crusader-type, whereas Waters is just an old crazy bloke.

Wow, I have never seen that interview. My respect for Roger just skyrocketed. It was already pretty high, but one of my biggest beefs with him was Sinead O'Conner on Live in Berlin. It is refreshing to see that.

She did a cover of Danzig?

I can't say that I have ever been turned off of someone's music by their political views, but there is one singer I can't listen to because when I was in college I heard about his backstage sexual shenanigans involving a girl I knew and several of his roadies.

Got to remember, I was a lot younger then, and just got out of a very sheltered and conservative household. Nonetheless, the initial disgust remains.

Aw, c'mon, you have to tell us who if not what.