Kevin's Watch

Totally loved Runes!
(But I'm such a fan I would have loved a story about how Giants clip their toenails!)

This story is RICH.
SD seems like he's going to use EVERY aspect of the Land and Beyond the Land that was ever mentioned and blend it all in together.


Comment/Thought:
I believe that, using the caesure idea, Donaldson has opened the entire history of the Land or the Earth to play with!
From the time the Creator's children fell through the Arch to the End of time.
The current Land of Liand's time has very little creative juices, so to speak. There's just nothing there. I believe that most of the action in the three following books will take place in other times or involve characters brought from the past to that time.

[Prediction #1 and #2 were written before I read the "Jeremiah? *SPOILERS*" thread, by the way]

Prediction #1
Covenant *is* Berek.
Their similarities are obvious.
Somehow he will travel through the Caesure and replace Berek or he always was Berek.
How is this possible? I have no idea. But Donaldson can do it.
Remember when Covenant asked at the One Tree why Berek knew that no one would need another Staff if Berek were a seer?
How did Berek know?
Because Covenant remembered that it didn't happen!
[Yes I saw the flaw with that when I finished writing it out. But it could go either way]

Prediction#2
If not Covenant then it will be Jeremiah who will become Berek.

Prediction #3
Linden's transporting the Staff from the past removed it from the Land for 3000 years! This absence weakened the Land and caused Kevin's Dirt and probably a few other problems that we don't know about yet.

Prediction #4
Foul is not the main enemy in this series like he was in the others though there will be a final confrontation with him at Ridjeck Thome! That's right the Thome will return.

Prediction #5
People that we will see/interact with either in their own time or after they have been transported to another:
[These are people that are "free" from influencing their "original" time]
-The Old Lords who were "slain" on the slopes of Mt Thunder
- High Lord Mhoram, we never hear how he died.
- FoamFollower (caesured away just before Thome was destroyed)
- Covenant himself [his body was intact at the end of WGW]

Prediction #6
The Krill will play a big part in this series.
Really big.
We learned that Loric didn't really silence the Viles by himself.
I think that whole tale is going to be explored and reworked/modified.

Prediction #7
(If pred#5 is true) During a conflict we will see how Mhoram interacts with an Old Lord. We will see the contrasts between the two. There will be a humorous moment when Mhoram hears the Seventh Word of Power and the Old Lord will be astonished learning how to join his mind with the other Mhoram.

Comment/thought/wish
The Worm at the Worlds End concept will totally be reworked because I hate it! The Creator-Arch-Children is so much better!

Prediction #8
Stave will become the original Guardian of the One Tree when he is transported back in the company of Berek/Covenant/Jeremiah [see pred #1 and #2]

Prediction #9
Stave meets some of the Bloodguard (from any time) but honoring the decree of his people and not wanting to disrupt time doesn't communicate with them. It would be interesting to see how the other Bloodguard react.

Prediction #10
Andelain is a wasteland in Liand's time.

Prediction #11
Anele will defeat the Skurj with the Staff of Law and Chant who is the next Appointed.

Comment
If 10 years "our time" = 3000 years "Land time"
The entire time of "universe" of the Land could well fit within Covenants lifetime.
His marriage, birth of son and book publication (the greatest time of his life) = High Lord Kevin’s time of the Land.
His coming down with leprosy = the time of the Ritual of Desecration.
[The 2nd Chronicles blew my little time theory out of the water but I just wanted to throw it out here]

Prediction #12
Joan Joan Joan...... I have no idea where Donaldson is going with her!

Prediction #13
Covenant's son? See Prediction #12

Prediction #14
The Urviles and Waynhim will put aside their anymosity and will be working together from now on.

Prediction #15
Nom will return. Along with several more Sandgorgons too. Again, look for the reactions from the Old Lords + Ranyhyn to the Sandgorgons and perhaps the reaction of the Sandgorgons to them to be priceless. [in an interesting and revealing way, not funny]

Prediction #16
Most of us are going to absolutely hate how Donaldson will finally end this series.

I'm done.
I just wanted to get my predictions down so if any come to pass I win the prize. (Which is the 5th Ward, by the way)

HLT

Didn't Berek (as a shade) show up at the end of TPTP to witness Foul's defeat?

I'm with you on the absence of the Staff causing/allowing the Dirt.

SRD mentioned in the gradual interview that he hadn't thought of the leprosy = Ritual relationship but maybe he can work it in.

High Lord Tolkien wrote: Prediction #1
Covenant *is* Berek.
Their similarities are obvious.
Somehow he will travel through the Caesure and replace Berek or he always was Berek.

HLT

Heh..do his fingers grow back so they can be chopped off in battle again?

R.

Quite. Also, as I just posted in another topic, we see Berek's ghost during the confrontation with Foul in TPTP, and there is no mention of him looking eerily like Covenant.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Prediction #5
People that we will see/interact with either in their own time or after they have been transported to another:
[These are people that are "free" from influencing their "original" time]
-The Old Lords who were "slain" on the slopes of Mt Thunder
- High Lord Mhoram, we never hear how he died.
- FoamFollower (caesured away just before Thome was destroyed)
- Covenant himself [his body was intact at the end of WGW]

Hmm. I can buy the Old Lords, Mhoram, maybe even Covenant...but not Foamfollower. If Foamfollower found himself whisked away by a caesure, Covenant would never leave the Land. He can't leave until his summoner dies, and his summoner in TPTP was Foamfollower.

Raist wrote: Heh..do his fingers grow back so they can be chopped off in battle again?

R.

I've always wondered how much time passed between Covenant losing his fingers and his first appearance in the Land. Given the time difference between the two worlds, would that time correlate to Berek losing his fingers?

CovenantJr wrote:Quite. Also, as I just posted in another topic, we see Berek's ghost during the confrontation with Foul in TPTP, and there is no mention of him looking eerily like Covenant.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Prediction #5
People that we will see/interact with either in their own time or after they have been transported to another:
[These are people that are "free" from influencing their "original" time]
-The Old Lords who were "slain" on the slopes of Mt Thunder
- High Lord Mhoram, we never hear how he died.
- FoamFollower (caesured away just before Thome was destroyed)
- Covenant himself [his body was intact at the end of WGW]

Hmm. I can buy the Old Lords, Mhoram, maybe even Covenant...but not Foamfollower. If Foamfollower found himself whisked away by a caesure, Covenant would never leave the Land. He can't leave until his summoner dies, and his summoner in TPTP was Foamfollower.

But there was that tapestry that shows him as a dead ringer

Sure he dies.
But now the Law of Life is broken as well.
Maybe the ceasaure took Foamfollower's dead body and deposoted it alive in another place and time.

Or perhap we get FoamFollower when he was crazy on Treacher's Gorge at the end of LFB.
Even if it's only for a few moments and FF thinks he's seeing things it would still be great.
It's really limitless with what Donaldson can do now.
I love it!

HLT

Bah, I've heard the "Berek is _______ who went back in time" theory so often now that I cannot possibly believe it. It would be too predictable. Besides, what's wrong with the idea that Berek is simply a guy from the Land who discovers how to make use of Earthpower?

Akasri wrote:

Raist wrote: Heh..do his fingers grow back so they can be chopped off in battle again?

R.

I've always wondered how much time passed between Covenant losing his fingers and his first appearance in the Land. Given the time difference between the two worlds, would that time correlate to Berek losing his fingers?

I don't remember exactly and I don't have my copy of LFB in front of me, but I believe that it is less than 2 years of "real time" between the onset of Covenant's leprosy, his amputation, and his first transportation to the Land. With the time ratio of 1 day "real time" = 1 year "Land time", less than 1000 years would transpire in the Land, which would not be enough time for Covenant's amputation to coorelate with Berek's.

- FoamFollower (caesured away just before Thome was destroyed)

if he did not die how could he be among TC's dead?

Yeah, covenant definately met Berek as one of the dead old lords in the end of TPTP, right? Silent, but still there...
but if covenant WAS berek, it would make those "I'm not your Bloody Berek!" lines sooo funny.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Prediction #5
People that we will see/interact with either in their own time or after they have been transported to another:
[These are people that are "free" from influencing their "original" time]
-The Old Lords who were "slain" on the slopes of Mt Thunder
- High Lord Mhoram, we never hear how he died.
- FoamFollower (caesured away just before Thome was destroyed)
- Covenant himself [his body was intact at the end of WGW]

I certainly hope not.
For me, it would cheapen the series to suddenly allow people from the past to now become heroes again. That includes Covenant. His physical form in the Land is dead. We all witnessed that in WGW.
I love Foamfollower with all my heart. I sorely missed him in the Second Chronicles. But his story is told. His moment has passed. I would rather he remain at peace with his dead than suddenly be whisked back into life via a caesure.
I don't want Runes to become a "Bill-and-Ted's-bring-them-back-from-the-past" cheesefest.

The history is written, and it should remain history. Learn from it, but don't repeat it. Elena already made that mistake.

I think if anyone could pull it off it would be SRD. He has this way, like stephen king for me, to do something that sounds a little cheesy in a summary but is absolutely amazing when read.

But I guess that's just it. I don't want him to pull it off. I want new experiences with new characters. Sure, a healthy mingling of the old is welcome. But by healthy I mean perhaps memories or tales of the past within the text. But I would be disappointed if Foamfollower were suddenly to appear hale and healthy on the shores of Glimmermere when Linden goes there.
Or if Mhoram came and re-lit the floor of the Lords chambers.
Or if Hile Troy donning his sunglasses came back to raise another army he can march to death.
Or if Triock and Lena came back as a happy couple, mothered by the Mahdoubt, with a little bundle named Trina...the second coming of Elena.

Granted, my scenarios above are off the wall, but I think you get the idea.
I really want the history to be history. Regardless of how I felt about the characters at the time.
If the time-travel aspect is not overused, it can be interesting. But if the past is resurrected in its entirety to re-fail, then I will certainly be disappointed.
I don't think SRD will do that to us.

I was just re-reading my write-up of SRD's visit to the UK, and I saw something I'd completely forgotten. I decided to mention it again here, since it might provoke some more predictions.

On the narrative purpose of caesures:

"I needed something to represent a particular dilemma faced by Lord Foul"

i read that to and am puzzled as to what it could mean.

The only thing i can see is that the caesure are weakening the Law of Time and hence the arch.

a dimlemma: he has the white gold via joan but cant use it directly for some reason. the only way Joan uses it is to make caesures. the dilemma is he has white gold but has to wait and watch joan slowly use it instead of rippiong the arch apart now?

I think the dilemma may in part be that without the white ring directly in his hands, he has no way to protect himself from the destruction of the Arch. It's destruction will be his demise rather than his freedom. (Which I disagree with in that I think Foul is mistaken as to its ability to protect him even though the very Arch to which it is crux is destroyed.)

Does the power of the white gold transcend time itself? Would not the wild magic graven in every rock for white gold to unleash or control no longer exist should the Arch be destroyed? After all, it is on a world within the Creator's Arch of Time that Foul resides.Would it not follow that Foul would be caught up in the destruction regardless of whether or not he had the ring?

The dilemma, I think, is how can Foul destroy Time and survive.
Perhaps he is trying to find a way to have not only the Time of the Land afflicted, but the time in Joan's real world affected as well by caesures[. Perhaps he can take refuge on Haven Farm during the destruction of the Arch, and then unleash his cosmic rage after he is no longer in danger of dying in the destruction.(Maybe hitch a ride on Jeremiah's red toy car. ) The Land's Time will no longer exist, but Joan's time will.

So add to the dilemma: Joan may be weakening Time in a way that he cannot foresee. It doesn't quite fit his plan.

It would be interesting to have a whole collection of SRD quotes that seem to foreshadow

Note to self.......must learn how to use the 'quote' function - not that I am new to this or anything.......


Covenantjr wrote:

'Quite. Also, as I just posted in another topic, we see Berek's ghost during the confrontation with Foul in TPTP, and there is no mention of him looking eerily like Covenant. '


Neither does it say he didn't. Given that if it was, TC in TPTP would have been in shock, seriously injured, poisoned, emotionally drained etc etc. Would he have recognised a future version of himself? (There is the argument that SRD had not decided to write the sequels at that stage and so would not have specifically written the book so that it left the option open, in the way that he did in the second trilogy to facilitate the third series. But neither has he ruled it out) When in the kind of state TC is in at this stage, I doubt most of us would recognise our own mothers, let alone a version of ourself which we couldn't have any basis for believing would be there.

That aside, I don't believe it is TC for 2 reasons:

1 Berek did not just 'appear' - the implications from the story was that he was in the Kingdom for some time and people would probably have noticed a high profile stranger showing up and never changing.

2 If he was Covenant, why would he appear in TPTP to urge an earlier version of himself to do something which he knew would not happen? It doesn't make sense.

Gofer wrote:
That aside, I don't believe it is TC for 2 reasons:

1 Berek did not just 'appear' - the implications from the story was that he was in the Kingdom for some time and people would probably have noticed a high profile stranger showing up and never changing.

2 If he was Covenant, why would he appear in TPTP to urge an earlier version of himself to do something which he knew would not happen? It doesn't make sense.

I used to be in the TC is Berek camp but now I think it wil be Roger.
They look alike and depending on how it's written I can see it happening any number of ways.
This would also explain why TC could see "Berek".

And as far as the Berek history goes we know NOTHING about his life in the Land (or south of the Land) at ALL.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:
I used to be in the TC is Berek camp but now I think it wil be Roger.
They look alike and depending on how it's written I can see it happening any number of ways.
This would also explain why TC could see "Berek".

And as far as the Berek history goes we know NOTHING about his life in the Land (or south of the Land) at ALL.

Why does Berek need to be either Covenant or Roger? In fact, why does Berek need to be involved at all? Haven't we learned anything from the Elena/Kevin fiasco? SRD is not going to bring Berek from the past to fight Foul of the future. Nor will we find that either Covenant or Roger was alive in the Land a full 3000 years before our first knowledge of TC's arrival in LFB. At least I hope he doesn't. It would ruin the Chronicles for me. It would make all the struggles of the Stonedownors, Woodhelven, Lords, Giants Haruchai Ramen and Ranyhyn meaningless. 6000 years of history squashed by a caesure. We find that regardless of any attempt to the contrary, the fate of the Land has been written all along. Hellfire and Bloody damnation! I won't have it. I! I!