Kevin's Watch

Do you think any white gold ring would control wild magic? Or does it have to be Covenant's (or one linked to it)?

If any could work, Roger would have just bought one.

It appears to me that it's only Covenant's - or one in some way connected to his ring. Perhaps the beggar / Creator transformed his specific ring into the talisman. In Lord Foul's Bane we read:

" .... [Covenant] tore [the ring] off his left hand and dropped it in the bowl. .... 'Gifts like this I return, to the giver.' ..... 'Take back the ring. Be true. You need not fail.' "

Perhaps in some "quantum" effect this also transformed Joan's ring due to the holy bonds of marriage - even though the legal bonds were cut by divorce.

What do you think?

The ring is merely a catalyst...

Covenant is the white gold, so I don't believe that just any white gold would wield the wild magic. But I'm at a loss to explain why Joan is wielding wild magic in the Land now.

I can think of two fairly reasonable explanations but they could(and most likely are) be wrong.
1. Anything related to covenant along the the lines of white gold has power(i.e. wifes wedding band).
2. If you look at the lords staffs differant lords had varying strengths. Perhaps a white gold ring is like that, a catalyst.... but because of who and what covenant is, he truly is "THE WHITE GOLD" which makes him more powerful.

As I've mentioned before, my theory is that white gold controls wild magic in a form specific to its weilder; I can't see Roger's white gold (if he had decided to buy some) being of quite the same nature as TC's. That also makes sense (to my mind, at least) in the context of what Roger/Foul are trying to achieve in Runes. Covenant is now part of the Arch of Time, one with wild magic. I suspect only his "type" of wild magic would be effective against him now.

Also, we don't know if Joan willingly went to the Land of her own volition. If she did then she's a "Tool" and she and her white gold (and whoever else tries to wield it) will be unable to break the Arch.

But Foul seems to think that the ceasures might break the Arch on thier own but he could be lying.

This would also explain why Roger couldn't just get his own Ring because he would also be a willing partner of Foul's and so also his Tool.

But why was he so insistant in getting Covenants Ring though?

Way too many questions!!

I think that Joan is able to wield wild magic through a different ring because of the bond forged between herself and Covenant, symbolized by the ring.

In essence, that ring is as much a part of Covenant as the one he wore on his own finger.
Sure, Joan divorced Tom, but to Covenant, (as shown by his devotion to her while she was beset by Foul), the bond between them, and his responsibility for her was still strong. Therefore, her ring held as much potential as his.
Then Linden restored the ring to Joan, thinking that what it symbolized would help Joan overcome her distress.
So, in a way, Joan's power was freely given to her, and it follows then that she could use it to do Foul's bidding.

Maybe Roger doesn't just buy a ring because Foul wants Covenant's ring. Foul considers Convenant's ring the ring and it wouldn't occur to him to get another one.

Also, Kasreyn's discussion of the power of gold in the One Tree seems to indicate that any gold would have some power. Too bad Linden didn't bring a tongue stud to wield on the Land's behalf.

Bullfrog wrote:..... Too bad Linden didn't bring a tongue stud to wield on the Land's behalf.

Hmmmm .... [EDIT - thought the better of my comment!]

CovenantJr wrote:As I've mentioned before, my theory is that white gold controls wild magic in a form specific to its weilder; I can't see Roger's white gold (if he had decided to buy some) being of quite the same nature as TC's. That also makes sense (to my mind, at least) in the context of what Roger/Foul are trying to achieve in Runes. Covenant is now part of the Arch of Time, one with wild magic. I suspect only his "type" of wild magic would be effective against him now.

Still, remember that by the end of WGW, Covenant (or more appropriately, his spirit) was repeatedly attacked with wild magic by Foul himself, and although he suffered, he couldn't be defeated... while different wielders probably exert different degrees and varieties of power, I doubt there are different types of wild magic (because that would imply a form of order codified by some sort of law). It is rather probable, instead, that Joan's ring is useless because she is a tool of the Despiser, and therefore even if Roger or Foul himself wielded it, it would be powerless to destroy the Arch of Time (even if you don't count Covenant's guardianship).

I believe Roger knew all along who had his father's white gold ring (Foul probably suspected it, since Linden was the only one left in the room when he disappeared, in WGW)... he asked Linden only in hopes that she would give it to him freely, thus making sure it wasn't a simple tool.

but... we dont know if Roger is a tool of the despiser... therefore if white gold only depends upon the ring and whether someone is a tool, then roger could have brought his own white gold ring.
Also Mhoram told Covenant that HE was the white gold. This suggests to me that there is something special about Covenant himself.

brinn18 wrote:but... we dont know if Roger is a tool of the despiser... therefore if white gold only depends upon the ring and whether someone is a tool, then roger could have brought his own white gold ring.
Also Mhoram told Covenant that HE was the white gold. This suggests to me that there is something special about Covenant himself.

Well, Roger looks quite the tool of the Despiser... he had no choice in what he has become, since Joan herself "indoctrinated" him when he was still a child. He is not "free" and has not been for many years (remember that when Megan tells Linden about him, she explains that after Joan left Roger with her parents, the little boy went through school and life with the single purpose of turning 21 so he could inherit his property - hardly the main goal of your average 11-year-old!). He is, perhaps, stronger than his mother in that she is a helpless pawn and he has become a willing servant - but a servant nonetheless, molded by Foul during the years.

Mhoram's sentence always made me think he meant that the power of the ring was not because of the ring alone, but also because of the wielder, or to put it another way, that Covenant was making a mistake in believing the ring's power was something which had nothing to do with him...

good point xar!

Dont have exact quote but:

Wild magic graven in every rock
Contained for WHITE GOLD to
Unleash or control.
Gold, WHITE GOLD, not ebon, ichor,
but WHITE (for WHITE is bone
of the earth; structure of flesh,
Discipline of life.


TC has from the beginning, carried out an on-going program of discipline in his life. Even Linden has to a certain degree. Roger, as far as we know, probably has not. Joan definately falls short. Thus, in this creation, not just any white gold metal will suffice. It has to be living and disciplined. The significance of a WG wedding ring represents the discipline of committment, ensuring a talisman of power.

That's one way to look at it; the song could just as well simply use the verses to exemplify what bone is like and why only white gold (white as bone) has that kind of power, as opposed to incarnadine gold, viridian gold or whatever else

The biggest problem I have with Covenant as White Gold (I know ... Mohram said it and he's now the Arch of Time) is this little except from The One Tree. The speaker is the Kemper speaking to Covenant:

Kemper, The One Tree wrote:"You have seen ... that I possess an ocular of gold. Purest gold-a rare and puissant metal in such hands as mine. With such aids, my arts work great wonders, of which Sandgorgons Doom is not the greatest. .....But you possess white gold..... It is an imperfect metal-an unnatural alliance of metals .... Its imperfection is the very paradox of which the Earth is made, and with it a master may form perfect works and fear nothing. "

This suggest to me that at least GOLD was rare and "puissant" - seems Roger could have brought a bunch of GOLD. So why not White Gold.

I agree with the theory that Joan's ring "works" because of its relation to TC's, or perhaps more relevantly because of her relationship to him.

I don't think that any white gold ring would do because remember - the Creator chose Covenant. That has to mean something.