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WGW Chapter 16 - "Andelain! Forgive!"

Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:28 pm
by ___
This chapter is dedicated to Joy, who told me to be myself.

We begin in Andelain, with Linden lying in the rain, stunned from the ‘revelation’ of Lord Kevin; the last guy I’d be taking advice from, seeing as how all he ever did in life or death was further Foul’s schemes. I mean, come on; how long has she been with Covenant? Close to 150 days, in life and death situations, and she’s going to take the word of a proven loser who she’s never met instead of trusting the guy who keeps on saving her, the guy who is her lover? Anyway. Linden sees a Wraith and she asks the Wraith to take her back to him and the others. Most of the party is asleep, except for the usual suspects; Vain, Findail, and, naturally, Covenant, who still prefers the company of his Dead to the living.

It should have been a beautiful, serene picture, with Wraiths dancing playfully over the sleeping forms of the Giants, Thomas talking to the closest friends he ever had in life or death, and Vain and Findail staying out of trouble for once. But no, Linden’s bitterness gives her the strength to ignore such things, and instead of responding to Thomas’s concern for her, she proceeds to abash each of the Dead with her anger and outrage, until they disappear (God help me when she finds out I’m voting for George W). Linden accuses Elena of arrogance and claims she never loved Thomas, her own father. How absolutely quaint; but still forgivable, as Elena did try to be his lover, too, and this could be just an outward sign of a hidden jealousy. Then she has to attack Bannor, who never tried to be Conenant’s boyfriend, but is one of the Haruchai, and frankly, after the treatment by the only four Haruchai Linden ever knew, well, I can understand her bile. Of course, she has no personal reason to hate a Giant. Fortunately, Foamfollower sees through her anger and correctly guesses that Kevin is behind it. Asking her forgiveness, he leaves. Now, only Mhoram is left. In a way, I think Linden is more jealous of Mhoram than Elena. Covenant trusted Mhoram, confided in him in ways that he never would to her. After her rant, Mhoram simply says “Linden Avery, you gladden my heart. You are worthy of him (Thomas)…..Only this I urge you: strive to remember that he is also worthy of you”.

Well, I have to agree that in the matter of insane rants, Linden is indeed Thomas’ equal. Still, I’d be lying if I said I thought that this was a small matter; after all, Kevin told her that Thomas was going to GIVE his ring to Foul, and so far, nobody is denying it. Still, Kevin has the perspective of a man who has lost repeatedly to Foul; Covenant has the distinction of beating Foul, and crazy as it seems, if he says he’s got a plan, I’m following him. But then again, I wouldn’t be the major protagonist of a Donaldson book if I was that simple…..

After being asked about 50 times by Thomas, Linden finally tells him what Kevin said, and, of course, Tom does not deny it, either. Oh boy. His actual words are “Don’t say it like that. You don’t understand. You said you trusted me.” Hmmm, not exactly how I would have done it, but then again, I’m no Donaldson creation. As you might have guessed, Linden is less than satisfied with Thomas’ explanation. She goes off alone as the evening shower turns into a downpour, proving I am in fact reading this chapter, not just going off of memory.

Linden heads off in the direction of Mount Doom, all the while analyzing Thomas and his motivations for giving up the ring and not telling her, placing each of his actions into safe little categories taught to her as a doctor in training, never noticing that once again she is running away from Thomas, like she has run away from so many things in her life. Well, at least she’s heading in the right direction.

Linden then comes across a gem of a plan; she will beat Covenant to Foul, and defeat him herself. Well, if a half-handed leper can beat Foul, then I guess a neurotic abandoned doctor can too. Still, she is without her own white gold ring, hasn’t held up so well against the Ravers she’s met, and her only special power in the Land is the easiest way for Foul to injure her. Speaking of being hurt through her health-sense, it is not morning and she’s near the edge of Andelain, and the new torturous sun is rising, and the sight of the halo of pestilence freezes her in her tracks. Boy, I bet Foul is quaking in his boots now. Still, common sense takes over, and she rushes back to the others to warn them in time. Which is a good thing, and I hope the beginning of an attitude change, because frankly, Linden is better than this.

Just as she finds the others, Donaldson decides to use the word “Crepuscular”, which, as you all know, is my favourite word, and indeed the reason I wished to do this chapter’s read. Just in time, too. Linden, that is; not my favorite word. They reach stone in the nick of time, happy to have found it, incredibly sad to see the Sunbane in Andelain for the first time. Linden is also sad because every resolve she made since listening to Kevin is now lost, as she chose to remain with Covenant instead of doing what she thinks is right. Great. Now she has to start all over again making rash decisions. When Thomas confronts her, tells her that giving the ring to Foul won’t help Foul in any way, tells her he knows this from experience; she secretly vows again to stop him. What did I just say about rash decisions?

Later in the day Linden tries to get Pitchwife’s help in stopping Tom. What she finds out is that while Pitch would be glad to help her, his wife will only support Thomas. So this difference of opinion not only has further wrecked one relationship; it threatens to wreck another, leaving only Findail and Vain’s odd one unscathed (Then again, Findail never makes an appearance in this chapter, contrary to my using his name over and over again, like he was here, which may have something to do with it). Pitchwife tells Linden that only she can act in time anyway, as he has no earth-sight, or health sense to guide him. But, he offers his service and his very life to her. That at least seems to make Linden happy.

The next day is like the day before, with everybody worn out and in a bad mood. Fortunately, Covenant doesn’t yet have a sucking chest wound, so we know it’s not the end yet. But, Mount Thunder is getting closer, and there’s less than 100 pages left in the book, so it has to be close to the end. The next day Mount Thunder was in view (I could have swore it was in view two days ago.....heh). Thomas looks like he’s going to address the company, but he doesn’t say a thing. Linden knows she could help him, but she also does nothing. Then her health-sense warns her to run, and she yells at the others to do the same, as the ground behind them explodes in a fury, putting the whole company in an even worse mood.

Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:47 am
by dlbpharmd
Nice job, Fixit!
She goes off alone as the evening shower turns into a downpour, proving I am in fact reading this chapter, not just going off of memory.
LMAO

My dislike of Linden reached a new low when she lost her faith in Covenant in this chapter, and especially when she chastised Covenant's Dead.

Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:11 pm
by duchess of malfi
dlb, I thought Elena, at least, deserved every word Linden had to say. :|

Mr. Fixit said:
We begin in Andelain, with Linden lying in the rain, stunned from the ‘revelation’ of Lord Kevin; the last guy I’d be taking advice from, seeing as how all he ever did in life or death was further Foul’s schemes. I mean, come on; how long has she been with Covenant? Close to 150 days, in life and death situations, and she’s going to take the word of a proven loser who she’s never met instead of trusting the guy who keeps on saving her, the guy who is her lover?
Oh, that is soooooo true!!!!! 8) But if Covenant had trusted Linden enough to tell her his plans, perhaps she wouldn't have given Kevin the time of day? Both trust and communication inside of the realtionship between lovers should be a two way street.

Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:19 am
by tonyz
I'm not sure that Linden isn't right, at least in part. The Haruchai could have beaten the ur-viles; I've never been entirely convinced by Elena's benevolence (the woman's _nuts_, for crying out loud...).

And Kevin was right, partly: Covenant _was_ planning to give Foul his ring. It didn't work out the way Kevin thought it would, but it so easily could have.

Mhoram and Foamfollower are another question. They both have points which need to be made -- but neither of them really answers Linden's concern, and Covenant certainly doesn't.

So, <i>why</i> doesn't he tell Linden his plan, at some point?

Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:29 am
by duchess of malfi
Exactly. Linden was reacting from the pain of thinking that Covenant did not trust her enough to share his plans with her.

If you were Linden would you want to hear about the plans from Kevin Landwaster or from Covenant? Well, Covenant didn't exactly give her a choice on that, did he?

I think Elena deserved every word she got, Bannor got the brunt of the way the Haruchai had treated Linden, and the two most able to understand her pain (and who least deserved getting yelled at) quite obviously forgave her...

Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:55 am
by dANdeLION
Elena may have deserved what she heard (I don't think so, but maybe), but Linden did not have the right to say it. Fortunately, the people of the Land, in living and in death, retain the grace to allow the whacked out main characters to work through their own personal issues. As for Thomas, he asked Linden to trust him, which was something she had promised him she'd do. If he wanted to keep his plans secret, that's his business. Everything Linden said came from her own doubt, which is why Foul sent Kevin to her, because nobody appeals to doubt better than the High Lord of doubt.

Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:20 pm
by dlbpharmd
Here's what Linden said to Elena:
You. Do you still think you love him? Are you that arrogant? What good have you ever done him? None of this would've happened if you hadn't been so eager to rule the dead as well as the living?
Does Elena deserve this from Linden? One has to remember that in life, Elena was insane. Her mental instability led her to the disastrous consequences found at Earthroot, and also led her to serve Foul directly as Elena Foul-wife. And that of course led to the destruction of the SoL, and eventually the Sunbane.

Covenant shares much of that blame as well. His bargain directly helped Elena reach Earthroot. And obviously he was the one who destroyed the Staff.

So I don't believe that Elena acted out of arrogance. As Triock said, she was "flawed from birth."

Does Elena still love Covenant? I think so - she referred to him as "Beloved" twice after death, at the Colossus and in Andelain. But now that she has the vision and the mental clarity of the Dead, that love has changed. And she knows that Covenant belongs to Linden now.

So I'm not convinced that Elena deserved this harsh treatment from Linden.

Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:33 pm
by danlo
Wasn't Elena's overriding obsession with Kevin a large part of what drove Covenant to his bargain? (Duchess makes some very good points, as well) And don't you think that part of what Linden said was due to the fact that she was still, somewhat, appaulled that his own daughter actually 'loved' him the way she did?

Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:58 pm
by dANdeLION
Nah, I think what Fixit thinks. Covenant was looking for a bargain the moment he stepped in the Land; read the "what has gone before" section of Runes, for crying out loud!

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:22 am
by variol son
Hold on. Linden was Covenant's lover. Practically his wife (at the end of the book, the ring is described as her wedding ring). She calls him Beloved.

And he not only decides to do the one thing that he promised her he wouldn't do (surrender to Lord Foul), but she has to find out from the obviously derranged Landwaster.

So, she feels betrayed both by the Dead, and by the man who claims to love her. And because of this, she lashes out, not at him, but at those that she believes have mislead him.

True, what she said was nasty and cruel, but it was said out of hurt and anger. It happens a lot in real life relationships, and we don't go around hating people because of it.

It was just that she didn't understand at the time. She had to be possessed and possess one last time to learn the trust which enabled her to let Covenant go to give up the ring. That act wouldn't actually mean anything without Linden's exchange with the Dead.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:34 am
by Dragonlily
duchess of malfi wrote:If you were Linden would you want to hear about the plans from Kevin Landwaster or from Covenant? Well, Covenant didn't exactly give her a choice on that, did he?
Everything Covenant says to anyone has to be sifted through the possibility that person might be taken over by a Raver, and the Raver would then know Covenant's secrets. Linden does have a vulnerability to possession, as the na-Mhoram proved. Covenant couldn't afford to tell anyone what he planned, because if Foul understood the white gold the way Covenant understood it, he couldn't be tricked into defeat.

I thoroughly sympathize with what the lack of understanding did to both of them. :cry: :cry: But what choice was there? And much as I would like to say Linden (at her most irritating!) should have trusted TC and stayed with him, all her weak points were being pressed like buttons in combination sequence, to bring her to where Foul wanted her.

BTW, Fixit, your write-up is a kick to read. All the high points, complete with your personal commentaries. :haha: Loved it.

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:50 am
by variol son
dANdeLION wrote:Nah, I think what Fixit thinks. Covenant was looking for a bargain the moment he stepped in the Land; read the "what has gone before" section of Runes, for crying out loud!
Does that mean we can no longer disect unless we have a copy of it, even though it isn't available here in New Zealand yet? :?

Sum sui generis
Vs

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:42 pm
by dANdeLION
Not at all. I was just referring to danlo disagreeing with Fixit, even though the mentioned passage supports Fixit's views. I hope you get it soon, too. Also, I do not believe Elena did not love Thomas, and I do not believe her love was impure. She wasn't quite sane, but she loved her dad. What Linden hated was that Elena didn't see what a burden her death was to him, but really that wasn't Elena's fault.

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:58 pm
by Dragonlily
dANdeLION wrote:
Spoiler
Elena didn't see what a burden her death was to him, but really that wasn't Elena's fault.
Was this a spoiler? 8O

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:23 pm
by dANdeLION
I don't see how it can be, but then again, I haven't read most of Runes yet. If you know something I don't, pm me.

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:27 pm
by Dragonlily
No, I don't, dAN. I've read less of it than you have. It wasn't much of one, it just sounded like it might be something from the plot. My apologies. 8)

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:34 pm
by danlo
I, personally, don't disagree with Fixit at all. As mod I sometimes ask controversial questions just to stir things up. And I have read half of Runes--and I do understand what has gone before. so please bite me<grin>next thing you know dAN will accuse me of not getting the underlying premise of Mordant's Need...

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:50 pm
by dANdeLION
You know, the way you say that makes me wonder if you even got the underlying premise of Mordant's Need.

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:18 pm
by danlo
OOO powerplay eh? I see...it's all a plot to make me out as the imposter I've been all along **breaks out "I love Terry Brooks!" pin** Ok, it's true: I've never read anything Donaldson ever wrote, I'll resign the board in disgrace and you can take over Casting the Augury and the Runes Dissection. Nerds! Losers! Later! :rant:

Despite=Terry Brooks

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:25 pm
by srtrout
Boy, I am afraid for Danlo: In the Land, the worst you can do is to give in to Despite, to join up with the Ravers and boys, maybe shed the blood of a Haruchai or two;

Here in "The Real World", the equivalent is to admit that you like Terry Brooks!

"The little company trudged on into the darkness while
evil had its attention elsewhere"


We're rootin for you Danlo (I hope you don't have any real white gold or we may have a desecration soon - it would be a bookstore that featured Harlequin Romances and Terry Brooks)

srtrout