Kevin's Watch

That EarthBlood is nasty stuff!!! Kevin couldn't think of anything that he thought was safe enough. Elena obviously made a bad decision. If I drank the EarthBlood, I'd command Amok back to life. I'm assuming that I would be able to tell that he was not alive in the traditional sense ("Perhaps. While I have purpose, I move and speak. My eyes behold. Is this life?"), and therefore letting him live again would not break the Law of Death. Elena could sense that death was no obstacle, so maybe I'd be able to tell such a thing. Anyway, Amok was such great guy, and loved his existence, even after who-knows-how-many centuries, more than anyone. I'd be happy letting him go on, and I don't see any particular problems.

I don't think ANY command would be a safe one. I always assumed that Amok was a being of earthpower, and was never really "alive" to begin with. But if he was, commanding him back to life would likely break the Law of Death the same was as bringing back Kevin did.

Only the most simple of desires could be granted without severe consequences. Say you wanted a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I'm sure that would cause no damage. If I had to choose a command, I would have the Earthblood lose its power, so no other would succumb to its tempting betrayal.

Romeo wrote:I don't think ANY command would be a safe one. I always assumed that Amok was a being of earthpower, and was never really "alive" to begin with. But if he was, commanding him back to life would likely break the Law of Death the same was as bringing back Kevin did.

Possible. But I <I>did</I> stipulate that I would somehow be able to feel the nature of Amok's life, and that it would <I>not</I> break the LoD, as Elena somehow felt that Death was not a barrier, before I did it. If I wasn't sure, I wouldn't do it. But, as you say, chances are, no command is safe. Maybe the LoD would be fine, but something else might go haywire. But if I <I>had</I> to make a Command, I'd take the chance for Amok's sake.

Gilden wrote:If I had to choose a command, I would have the Earthblood lose its power, so no other would succumb to its tempting betrayal.

I can't help but wonder if a consequence of that would be the destruction of the Earthpower itself. Since it came to my mind right away, I suppose it must be a possibility. Amok said:

...there are few who can foresee the outcome of what they have enacted.

They even discussed this whole problem on <I>I Dream of Jeannie</I>! LOL

There's always The Law of Unintended Consequences^* (damn me if I can't find a reputable definition of that law anywhere on the net, either) to deal with in this case.

In any situation like this, you're basically changing a very simple variable in a very complex system (the fact that even the Creator had to basically flip a coin in deciding to use Covenant should suggest that no mortal could be completely safe). It's like dropping a penny in one of those charity things places like Denny's keep on the counter. Even if you're lucky/wise enough to get your intended result, you can never know what else will happen. Who knows if there isn't some universal Law of PB&J sandwiches... by wishing for this sandwich you allow a demonic race of PB&J to enter this dimension (quite possible if you consider an infinite number of dimensions).

I mean, what if Kevin actually ended up whooping Foul's ass? What would Elena have done with him then? Kept him around like a puppy? Sent him off to wander the Land like Cain?

The 7th ward was dangerously useless. I think that's why it was the last ward. If you couldn't figure out how to do something by the time you learned that ward, maybe it doesn't need doing?

*stolen from MTSR in a previous post

Actually, I think the fairly obvious command is for the Ravers to flee from all that live and never interact with anyone ever again. Thus Lord Foul would lose his most powerful servants, or have to expend extra strength to keep them near him.

And then the Ravers are given the ability to inhabit non-living things? The rock itself, the grass, the Earthpower becomes theirs for the taking. It wouldn't do much good, that's for sure. But here's a question: What if a command made by the Earthblood contradicted one made in the past?

Immortality, a blessing and a curse. Sure, you can live forever...but youll be spending your life fighting Lord Foul, and watching your friends die one at a time...

Gilden wrote:And then the Ravers are given the ability to inhabit non-living things? The rock itself, the grass, the Earthpower becomes theirs for the taking. It wouldn't do much good, that's for sure.

Uh...I don't get it. If the Ravers could inhabit non-living things, then wouldn't they already be doing it (and btw, grass is alive)? The command doesn't give them any new abilities. By ordering them to flee from all living things and staying away, then at least in theory they are rendered less harmful.

As far as I know they cannot possess anything that was not once alive. But if you forbid them from possessing the alive and by definition they exist to possess then what would happen?

That's what the Law Of Unintended Consquences is. (I love it, used it in another thread and see that it is so popular someone stole it from me for this one )

Maybe they would be granted vehicles to flee life from? Maybe all life would cease?

It does not to meddle with powers beyond comprehension. That's probably why Kevin chose descreation. Even if it was the wrong choice at least he knew what he was doing and what the outcomes would be....

*MTSR*

For me the problem was elenas's rush to use the power was part of her demise, who could have thought of all the concequences a "command" might have they needed time to think though it.

Given time she might have commanded the revival of the one forrest and it cololsus, she might have comanded the elohim to ward the land....

I wondered why she did not command Covenant to believe in the land!

Because the unbelief was the crucial paradox for the white gold.

MokshaTuriyaSamadhi Raver wrote:As far as I know they cannot possess anything that was not once alive. But if you forbid them from possessing the alive and by definition they exist to possess then what would happen?

Mhoram tells us:

"We knew that they were named Sheol, Jehannum, and Harem, and that they lived without bodies, feeding upon the souls of others. When the Despiser was powerful enough to give them strength, they enslaved creatures of people by entering into their bodies, subduing their wills, and using the captured flesh to enact their master's purposes."

And

...[the Ravers] were old in the Spoiled Plains before Lord Foul first cast his shadow there....they came to the Upper Land, and in their lust for ravage and dismay fell swiftly under the mastery of the Despiser."

It would seem they don't exist to possess. The chronology in these passages says that they were eating souls long before they met Foul, and he gave them the strength to possess.

My one word would be that all the Lord would gain the power to push back Lord Foul so he couldnt do shit =)

I wondered why she did not command Covenant to believe in the land!

I don't think there's any way Covenant could've been commanded. Even if the white gold didn't protect, Covenant isn't the Land's to command.

I think that's the same reason Foul couldn't just overwhelm and subdue him then take the white gold. TC was unassailable in that respect. in the end, he had to make a choice for the Land or for despair; the lynchpin for the Creator or the Despiser, but pawn to neither.

as someone else said, lose that and you lose the paradox.

BTW, Ravers CAN possess the non-living. remember those rock dudes in WGW? I seem to remember rock dudes. I think they really exist and I'm not making them up, pretty sure of it actually. Yup, ravers can posess the nonliving. Anywayz.....My command? Can't I just tell LF to "Be Nice!" Like I do to the dogs when they're being bad? lol

You are probibly right she could not command TC. In retrospect a command from earthpower incarnate to the white gold might have caused problems beyond breaking the law of death.

I guess I will go back to my thought that she needed to take more time to find best how to use a power even Kevin did not.

Anonymous wrote:You are probibly right she could not command TC. In retrospect a command from earthpower incarnate to the white gold might have caused problems beyond breaking the law of death.

I guess I will go back to my thought that she needed to take more time to find best how to use a power even Kevin did not.

just me forgeting to log in!

A'ight.(funny word isn't it?) My command would be to make the Bloodgaurd/Haruchai act more laid back. I mean, good grief. The way they act just gets on my nerves.

My one word would be that all the Lord would gain the power to push back Lord Foul so he couldnt do shit =)

I don't think that Power existed within the Earth. Foul came from outside
the Arch. Like Wild Magic, Foul was just beyond anything that all the Power of the Earth could do.