Kevin's Watch

Did anybody feel that Lord Foul is being quite smug this time around? Both in the First and Second Chronicles, he was rather arrogant, only deigned to speak with the summoned people at the beginning and not again until they stood before him, and didn't even bother hiding his utter contempt for them. He even talked to his own servants (like the Ravers) the same way! And now he even talks to Linden while leading her to hurtloam, and answers her questions (some of them at least) with a lot of smugness...

SPOILERS AHEAD...

"Does mocking us please you so much that you can't resist? Hell, you can't escape unless you destroy the whole Earth. Don't you have anything better to do?"
[...]
"At this moment?" the Despiser asked merrily. "Indeed I do. You must be restored, lest you prove unable to serve me. I mean to assist you. [...] Come, woman. Accept our guidance. We will show you hurtloam."

Seeing that she had not moved, Anele beckoned more urgently. "You require healing." Lord Foul assured her. "Without it, these self-maimed Masters will esnare you blithely, and this time you will not win free. They will hold you helpless until I am forced to foil them on your behalf. Without hurtloam, also, you will not regain the discernment which renders you able to serve me. Come, I say. [...] Be assured that this abject old man does not wish harm upon you."

He even carefully explains to Linden one of the reasons why he wants her free! Not content with that, he helps her to hurtloam, sounds actually delighted (!!!) when he denies having done more than planting suggestions here and there... What ARE his plans?!

I think there are other (loose cannon)formidable powers keeping him at bay. Or it least on his toes

I really can't know what he is planning. But remember this; Stephen Donaldson did say Foul was going to be more of a background figure this time round.

Well, he surely seems to be much more "accessible" this time...

True, but only because he needs Linden to work his will. Which is exactly what she is doing.

About Foul.
What "power" does he have exactly?
He's only a part of the Creator or rather something that the Creator had little trouble with once he was aware of Foul/Despite.
So despite [ha!] Foul calling the creator his "Enemy" what can Foul expect to happen once he's free from the Arch?
A good beat down from the Creator again?

Foul never engages anyone in personal combat.
Not even Kevin during the Ritual.
Foul was laughing as Kevin sang (hey, my interpretation).
According to Troy, Foul was beating Kevin in war because Kevin exposed all his strategy to Foul when he made Foul a Lord.

He does seems to have control over the Ravers at any distance.

He used the Stone himself to combat TC not his own personal power.
Drool, a mere cavewight, was even able to contain Foul with the Stone.

I wonder if those 3 Bloodguard weren't too far off thinking that they could defeat Foul in combat.
Take the Stone out of the equation and I think they might have had a chance.

What *is* Foul's connection to the Ravers?
Why do they follow him so faithfully?

Anyone have some comments on the above?

Mhoram or Hamako says Ur-Viles served him because he taught them lore in return. And he taught Drool how to use the Staff of Law. I don't think he is powerless.

Regarding the above comments by HLT:

I think Foul's a bit delusional. He's been trapped down here for quite some time. You're right - the Creator *seemingly* handled him easily, so once Foul is free, he can expect more of the same.

But regarding his strength, here's a quote from TPTP:

He stared at the Stone for a moment, horrified by its strength. But then his staggered senses became aware of another might in the thronehall. This power seemed oddly subdued in comparison to the Stone. But it was only subtler, more insidious - not weaker. As Foamfollower turned toward it, he knew that it was the Stone's master.

Lord Foul.

The dude operates on deceipt, absolutely, but he's no slouch. It wasn't a turtle that created the Sunbane.

burgs66 wrote:Regarding the above comments by HLT:

I think Foul's a bit delusional. He's been trapped down here for quite some time. You're right - the Creator *seemingly* handled him easily, so once Foul is free, he can expect more of the same.

But regarding his strength, here's a quote from TPTP:

He stared at the Stone for a moment, horrified by its strength. But then his staggered senses became aware of another might in the thronehall. This power seemed oddly subdued in comparison to the Stone. But it was only subtler, more insidious - not weaker. As Foamfollower turned toward it, he knew that it was the Stone's master.

Lord Foul.

The dude operates on deceipt, absolutely, but he's no slouch. It wasn't a turtle that created the Sunbane.

Thanks.
I suspected that there was a description of Foul that I was missing. That was it.

Plus, remember that, according to the first creation myth we heard, it was Foul himself who planted banes such as the Illearth Stone in the newly-created Land... so that's one more accomplishment above and beyond the creation of the Sunbane...

With regard to your first post, I found Foul to be almost clumsy this time. Never in the past has he needed to act so directly to lead people where he wants them to go. The majority of the major events of both Chronicles, but particularly the first, were orchestrated by Foul - but he very rarely exerted any direct influence over any of the characters.

And, of course, there's a reason for his clumsiness. Can't wait to find out what it is.

One of the things I always found impressive about TCTC was that Lord Foul actually changed over time. He apparently was able--more to point, willing--to masquerade as a human being during a past age. When Covenant first encountered him, Foul simply doesn't seem the type to do that. One can also argue that perhaps he is no longer capable of it--he is limited by his own nature, after all. The most interesting detail of Foul's Creche was always to me that the utterly perfect and pristine chambers where the Despiser resided were empty of all save Him. Whereas before he could successfully pretend at humanity, now he would not tolerate even his servants near him.

In the second Chronicles, Foul seems more frantic, more desperate even. Although still beyond our ken, he seems less in control of himself, less patient and frankly less wise--how else could Covenant have defeated him?

Now--from what little we've seen--Foul seems more mature, less gloating and more focussed. But then, recall he has a second White Gold ring to worry about, one obeying the will of the madwoman!

...I've never noticed Foul use the royal "we" before either...

avial wrote:...I've never noticed Foul use the royal "we" before either...

Hey now!
That's interesting.
Where was that?

I suspect the "we" refers to himself and Anele, the body he is possessing.

Yes i was also caught off gaurd by that fact. When he is helping Linden to hurtloam he also uses the term "our" as in "come, woman. Accept our guidance". Look to the quote at the top of this forum that Xar has supplied. Is he referring to himself and Anele who's boby he is possessing, our maybe it is he and the remaining Ravers? Or is it someone else completely

Satansheart Soulcrusher wrote:I suspect the "we" refers to himself and Anele, the body he is possessing.

Or perhaps Covenant... I mean Covenant and Foul ARE one.

Perhaps, but we have yet to see the fruits of that union manifest themselves...

perhaps we did in this book... It's obvious Lord Foul wanted Linden to get the Staff of Law, and so did Covenant... maybe their both working together.