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Karen Wyn Fonstad's "The Atlas of the Land"

Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:53 pm
by Sweet Brutha Numpsay
Has anyone read this!? I just came across it. Wanted to know if it is worth pursuing or purchasing?


{For Donaldson fans, this is an essential guide to all six books in the two series of the "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant". Every place name, every building, town in any of the books is identified and its history and significance provided. In certain cases, illustrations are provided to make the relationships of certain elements clear.}

Product Details:


Unbound (January 1, 1985)
Publisher: Ballantine Books
ISBN: 034531431X
Other Editions: Paperback
Average Customer Review: *****

And Off Topic:
Damn I can't get this out of my head. Anyone else having sypoms of this epidemic?===> "Flavor! Flaaav!"

:screwy:

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:04 am
by matrixman
I would say the Atlas is definitely worth getting. And since Donaldson worked closely with Fonstad on the book, you can be assured it is faithful to his vision of the Land--or at least as faithful as mere pen and ink will allow. Donaldson himself has praised her efforts. I've had my copy of the Atlas for years, and I wouldn't dream of parting with it. If you want to get a sense of what the maps look like, go check out the Album section of the Watch. Our own Furls Fire has scanned some images from the Atlas and posted them for viewing. 8)

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:06 am
by dlbpharmd
The Atlas is definitely worth buying. I've found my copy on eBay sometime ago. It's a valuable source of information.

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:17 am
by Sweet Brutha Numpsay
I cant believe these things exist, or have existed right under my very own nose! Have you all read
Gilden-Fire? I'm trying to get it now on ebay. Just found out about just now!!!!!!! I can not believe it. It was a fluke, just browsing google. I thought I was a decent fan. :Hail:

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:41 am
by dlbpharmd
You've never read Gilden-fire? My friend, you're in for a real treat.

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:23 pm
by CovenantJr
I've never read Gilden Fire either. To my mind, SRD removed it from the Illearth War for a reason.

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:27 pm
by drew
I've never read Gilden Fire either
I agree with you on that one....but have you read anything else from Daughter Of Regals...that's where I read Gilden Fire.
If not-do so (at least read the rest of the stories)

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:12 pm
by Sweet Brutha Numpsay
But then pulished for a reason?

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:37 am
by Sweet Brutha Numpsay
CovenantJr wrote:I've never read Gilden Fire either. To my mind, SRD removed it from the Illearth War for a reason.
My friend, then you misrepresent yourself;

{Possible Gilden Fire Spoiler} Author Forward from SRD.
Spoiler
FOREWORD

GILDEN-FIRE is, in essence, an "out-take" from THE ILLEARTH WAR. For that reason, it is not a complete story. Rather, it describes an episode which occurred to Korik of the Bloodguard and his mission to Seareach during the early days of THE ILLEARTH WAR, after Thomas Covenant's summoning to the Land but before the commencement of the actual war. This material survived through two drafts of the manuscript, but is entirely absent from the published version of the book.
On that basis, I think it requires some explanation. As a general rule, I use my out-takes for wastepaper. But I've made an exception in this case for a variety of reasons.
Some of them have to do with why GILDEN-FIRE was taken out of THE ILLEARTH WAR in the first place. The version of the manuscript which originally crossed the desk of Lester del Rey at Ballantine Books was 916 pages long -- roughly; 261,000 words -- That was manifestly too long. With much regret, Lester gave me to understand that I would have to cut 250 pages.
Well, I'm a notorious over-writer; and I was able to eliminate 100 pages simply by squeezing the prose with more than my usual ruthlessness. But after that I had to make a more difficult decision.
As it happened, the original version of THE ILLEARTH WAR was organized in four parts rather than the present three. Part II in that version dealt exclusively with Korik's mission to Seareach; and it eventually provided me with the 150 pages of cuts I still needed. Not because I considered the material to be of secondary importance (I have little sympathy for anyone who considers the fate of the Unhomed, the fidelity of the Bloodguard, and the valour of the Lords to be of secondary importance). On the contrary, I was quite fond of that whole section. No, I put my axe to the roots of my former Part II for reasons of narrative logic.
From the beginning, that section had been a risky piece of writing. In it, I had used Korik as my viewpoint character. For the first time in the trilogy, I had stepped fully away from Thomas Covenant (or any direct link to the "real" world). And that proved to be a mistake. It was crucial to the presentation of Covenant's character that he had some good reasons for doubting the substantial "reality" of the Land. But all his reasons were undercut when I employed someone like Korik -- a character with no bond, however oblique, to Covenant's world -- for a narrative center. (THE ILLEARTH WAR does contain two chapters from Lord Mhoram's point of view. But in both cases Mhoram is constantly in the company of either Covenant or Hile Troy. Korik's mission lacked even that connection to the central assumptions on which LORD FOUL'S BANE and THE ILLEARTH WAR were based.) In using Korik as I had, I had informed the reader that the people of the Land were in fact "real": I had unintentionally denied the logic of Covenant's Unbelief. Which was already too fragile for its own good.
Therefore I took the absolutely essential sections of that Part II and recast them as reports which Runnik and Tull brought back to Covenant and Troy -- thus preserving the integrity of the narrative perspective from which the story was being viewed. And in the process I achieved the 150 pages of cuts I needed.
But all of GILDEN-FIRE was lost.
That does not exactly constitute high tragedy. Cutting is part of writing; and narrative logic is more important than authorial fondness. My point is simply that GILDEN-FIRE was cut, not because it was bad, but because it didn't fit well enough.
However, the question remains: if this material didn't fit THE ILLEARTH WAR, why am I inflicting it upon the world now?
The main reason, I suppose, is my aforementioned fondness. I like Korik, Hyrim, and Shetra, and have always grieved over the exigency which required me to reduce their role in the story so drastically. But, in addition, I've often felt that the moral dilemma of the Bloodguard is somewhat obscure in the published version of my books; too much of their background was sacrificed when I cut GILDEN-FIRE. In fact, too much development of the people who would eventually have to face the destruction of the Unhomed was sacrificed. (How, for instance, can Lord Hyrim's achievements be fully understood when so little is known about him?) By publishing GILDEN-FIRE, I'm trying to fill a subtle but real gap in THE ILLEARTH WAR.
Finally, I should say that I think the logic which originally required me to cut out this material no longer applies. Since it cannot stand on its own as an independent story, GILDEN-FIRE will surely not be read by anyone unfamiliar with "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever". And those readers know that the question of whether or not the Land is ultimately "real" (whether or not a character like Korik is sufficiently "actual" to serve as a narrative view-point) no longer matters. In reality as in dreams, what matters is the answer we find in our hearts to the test of Despite. By publishing GILDEN-FIRE, I hope to give more substance to the answers Korik, Hyrim, and Shetra found.

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:56 am
by dlbpharmd
CovenantJr wrote:I've never read Gilden Fire either. To my mind, SRD removed it from the Illearth War for a reason.
I disagree. Gilden-Fire alone is worth the price of Daughter of Regals.

If you consider yourself a Haruchai fan at any level, you owe it to yourself to read Gilden-Fire.

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:49 pm
by CovenantJr
Meh, Haruchai ;)

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:56 pm
by duchess of malfi
Gilden Fire is right up there with some of Donaldson's finest writing. :) Not just for the insights on the haruchai, but also for the interections between the two Lords on the mission, Hyrim and Shetra. :) Plus its just a great little piece of writing...some great action scenes! 8)

Lord Hyrim is soooo cool, and you only get a shadow of his story in what's left in TIW. :|

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:02 pm
by PitchDude
Cleveland, did you type that entire (spoiler covered) excerpt?? If so, good on ya! I was going to make the same point, but I'm *far* to lazy to do that much typing. :o)

Jim

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:08 am
by Sweet Brutha Numpsay
I had it on txt. file Just copied and pasted. That would have been too much work!

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:16 pm
by Prover of Life
Cleveland wrote:I cant believe these things exist, or have existed right under my very own nose! Have you all read
Gilden-Fire? I'm trying to get it now on ebay. Just found out about just now!!!!!!! I can not believe it. It was a fluke, just browsing google. I thought I was a decent fan. :Hail:

If you can't get it, there is a used bookstore here in the Dallas area that has the hardback for $20. I think they may have the Atlas too.

Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:13 pm
by Isildurs Bane
So was that what that strange light was all about in the sarangrave which is mentioned but never explained wen runnick brings his tale back? is that gilden fire?

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:10 am
by dlbpharmd
IB, have you read Gilden-Fire? I'm reluctant to answer your question as it may be a spoiler.

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:41 pm
by danlo
bump

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:47 am
by ur-James
I got "Daughter Of Regals" for Christmas from my wife, can't wait to get to it. I have the rest of WGW and Runes ahead of me first, though. Then Reave The Just, and the Mordant's Need books. Yeah, I'm set for reading material for a while.

James

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:15 am
by MrKABC
Prover of Life wrote:
Cleveland wrote:I cant believe these things exist, or have existed right under my very own nose! Have you all read
Gilden-Fire? I'm trying to get it now on ebay. Just found out about just now!!!!!!! I can not believe it. It was a fluke, just browsing google. I thought I was a decent fan. :Hail:

If you can't get it, there is a used bookstore here in the Dallas area that has the hardback for $20. I think they may have the Atlas too.
EEEEEK!! Gilden Fire is $20??? The book was OK - I would have liked to have seen it included in The Illearth War as a "director's cut" so to speak.

Paying THAT much money for a sliver of a book IMHO isn't worth it. I remember being disgusted at the ending of the book, since it pretty much stops dead after a small battle and lots of introspection.