Kevin's Watch

I'd be interested in what Watcher's think about the "Creator" of Covenant's real world! What type of cosmology would allow another "creator" to interfere to the extent the Land's Creator and Foul have done. Just think about the real world body count and burned hands!!

Now we can't ask SRD! He has no patience for such musings since they don't impact the central "story". He has already said, as far as he's concerned such questions are irrelevant (and annoying) to him!

But here at the Watch we have some AWSOME world builders. I'd be interested to see imagination in overdrive and perhaps the WATCH can flesh out the peripheral parts of the TCTC cosmology!

Any takers?

Like Marvel Comics allowing DC Comics to use some of its characters...
Hmmmm...

But to be a bit more creative: well, maybe Covenant's Reality's Creator was the Land's Creator's Enemy, which found himself emprisoned in the Land's Earth, and so can't prevent the Ol'Beggar from recruiting whom he wants...

Revenant wrote:Like Marvel Comics allowing DC Comics to use some of its characters...
Hmmmm...

But to be a bit more creative: well, maybe Covenant's Reality's Creator was the Land's Creator's Enemy, which found himself emprisoned in the Land's Earth, and so can't prevent the Ol'Beggar from recruiting whom he wants...

Hmmmm .... that would make the creator the devil !! And Foul a "ticked-off" God!!!

Might they be the same person?

In Paganism we believe all gods are one. I believe they are the same deity.

The Holy Trinity: the Beggar, the Foul and the Unbeliever.

This thread has already left me thoroughly confused. No wonder SRD feels a little exasperated. But I applaud your desire to "flesh out" the TCTC cosmology, Creator. Best of luck to you and all who want to take up the challenge. Me, I think I'll just take some aspirin...

At the end of th efirst chron, the begger/creater says something along the lines that creators can always create new worlds if the current one isn't going too good, so it shows that there is more than one World Creater, but each one can/has made more than one world.

First are those who become new gods, and for whom new universes are born. --Gene Wolfe

No reason to assume that any god is limited to one world, or that only one "universe" exists that must contain all possible gods.

Although I like Kimbierlee's idea of all deities merely being aspects of one deity, it doesn't have to be so. Quite apart from the possibily that such a deity may have serious MPD, or the fact that humans then interpret what should be essentially similar (if not identical), teachings as being completely different, if one exists, there is, if not a probability, at least a possibility that other deities can exist as well.

Not to mentions Drew's point that they may be one and the same. Merely different "world-building experiments", which may make Foul the devil here too.

--Avatar

Donaldson was raised a missionary, and while he is no longer a evangelist, he has strong Christian ties to his heart and they bleed into this thems. I believe that the Creator/Foul story is identical to the God/Devil story of Christianity.

Say there is a Devil here on Earth. He has been cast from heaven (from the Creator's side) and into a prison, whereupon he acts petulantly to try and escape and claim vengance on the creator. We should know this is nonsense, as God's and Creators to powerful for even Despair, and certainly Despite. But this is Foul's delusion. He wants to retain the cosmos, and engage in warfare with his "Enemy", whereupon he will be slapped down. In a big way. I imagine that moer than 7000 years of being beaten down and spent mostly festering your wounds will affect even a god-like character such as Foul.

They're not limited to one world. The Creator came to Covenant's world. Through fire, Foul came to Covenant's world. They allneed to STAY HOME.

burgs66 wrote: ...We should know this is nonsense, as God's and Creators to powerful for even Despair, and certainly Despite. ...

I don't know about that. Catholicism teaches that there are two distinctly different "personalities" of God. The Old Testament God was a God of vengeance and fury, using fear as persuasion:"The Wrath of God"
It was not until the New Testament that God became the loving "turn the other cheek" God.

burgs66 wrote: They're not limited to one world. The Creator came to Covenant's world. Through fire, Foul came to Covenant's world. They allneed to STAY HOME.

Yes, they do. They need to pick up a copy of TC, and just sit back and read.

ur-bane wrote:

burgs66 wrote: ...We should know this is nonsense, as God's and Creators to powerful for even Despair, and certainly Despite. ...

I don't know about that. Catholicism teaches that there are two distinctly different "personalities" of God. The Old Testament God was a God of vengeance and fury, using fear as persuasion:"The Wrath of God"
It was not until the New Testament that God became the loving "turn the other cheek" God.

burgs66 wrote: They're not limited to one world. The Creator came to Covenant's world. Through fire, Foul came to Covenant's world. They allneed to STAY HOME.

Yes, they do. They need to pick up a copy of TC, and just sit back and read.

Catholocism isn't the lithmus test. SRDs philosophies, as they apply to the Land, are. My signature line is straight out of TPTP. As SRD is not a polemicist, he would not be interested in making comments on the Catholic version of God. Remember, HE is the Creator of his world.

This is very true. But the reply was in the context of our world, not the Land.

As far as the original post goes, Covenant's real world is our real world, therefore your beliefs as to the origin of it's creator are what matters, and are open to your own interpretation.

Who created our (Covenant's) real world is completely irrelevant to the story. On that we are both agreed. As is SRD.

burgs66 wrote:.... We should know this is nonsense, as God's and Creators to powerful for even Despair, and certainly Despite. But this is Foul's delusion...

I agree they are too powerful ( and powerless) for despair, but NOT the Despiser! From LFB:

SRD - Lord Fouls Bane wrote:There was great hazard-risk for the world which I made-risk even for me. Had my enemy gained the white wild magic gold, he would have unloosed himself from the Earth-destroyed it so that he might hurl himself against me.

Also interesting is the reference to Covenants world. Perhaps another Creator? He seems to imply there are many!

SRD Lord Fouls Bane wrote:Gods and creators are too powerful and powerless for despair.

And finally, the Creator seems to be somewhat aware of Covenant's earth's laws.

SRD Lord Fouls Bane wrote:Your world runs by Law, as does mine.

I also wonder about the difference between a "Creator" and a "God"!

Don't the Catholics and other Christian religions have Three faces of God?

I think you mean the Trinity...One God, one essence, but three distinct persons...The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit *smile*

Now, now... Don't be injecting truth into the discussion.