Kevin's Watch

Am I? I mean he gets a knife to his throat and has his clothes peeled off with said knife... and no-one seems to realize that this is rape. I think Jordan tried to use it as a comic storyline; But the fact is, if Mat was a women and it was a King instead of a Queen who put a knife to his throat, the readers would be up in arms screaming "rape". sex using force is rape. I felt quite sick.

That whole storyline has been a complete turn off for me. I think that Jordan did mean for it to be humorous, or at least amusing, which turns me off even more.

Revan is correct -- if it was a middle aged King wielding the knife and a nubile and attractive young girl as his target, a lot of people would be completely revolted.

A character being held prisoner as a sex slave is, to me, just plain gross.

I'm with you on this one Darth. Sex by force=rape, no argument. I think it's supposed to be a comic reversal on Mat the ladies man - the biter bit - but it left me feeling nauseous.

You can't rape the willing.

He wasn't willing. He was raped.

It's difficult to pin down this one - he certainly wanted to sleep with Tylin; what he didn't like was the way it happened. Yes, he was unwilling when she used the knife to get him into bed, but as it says, once he was in that bed, he didn't care about how he got there until they were finished.
I think that's the point here - he didn't mind sleeping with her, it was the way she treated him (reversing his usual role) that he didn't like.
RJ makes it clear in Winter's Heart and Crossroads of Twilight that Mat does in fact feel some affection for Tylin, despite the way he tries to get out of his situation - that's why he goes back for one more night before he leaves.

Again, it's easy to solve just by reversing the situation - even if a woman is attracted to a man and/or feels affection toward him: if at any point she says 'no', anything beyond that is rape.

What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

*shudder* why are we even talking about this?

Iryssa wrote:*shudder* why are we even talking about this?

Why did we talk about the Rape of Lena?

Because it was a traumatic and crucial event in the chrons. This is just some little side-story.

Nevertheless, it was part of the story... I consider one of the three major characters getting raped quite large.

And the situation (Mat being held prisoner and sex slave) is part of the set up for what I think will be quite an important story line -- Mat and the Daughter of Nine Moons.

Yes - it necesserily reduced him in her sight, since she was first introduced to him as 'Tylin's Toy' - a rather unusual situation for a man to be in, to Tuon's point of view, which made her all the more intrigued by him.

Tuon doesn't seem that interested to me....

On the contrary, I think she is very interested, but its not as though she can show it. I mean, we KNOW

Spoiler

that they will marry, one way or another

And everything else is a build up to it. In fact,

Spoiler

SHE now gets to decide when. By her customs, all she has to do is say that they're married, and voila!

As for the "rape", I agree that it was meant to be a humerous take on the usual order of things. And I found it to be just that on the whole. Mat wasn't upset about the outcome, only the way in whcih it was achieved. But we could say that Jordan was a little less sensitive to the implications than he could perhaps have been.

--Avatar

As usual, Avatar gives us a great answer.

*Bows Smiling*

I do my best Darth.

Thanks
--A

Avatar wrote: And everything else is a build up to it. In fact,

Spoiler

SHE now gets to decide when. By her customs, all she has to do is say that they're married, and voila!

Spoiler

I wish I could just randomly say "Hey, Tallin, we're married!"

Bloody real-world laws and real-ife obstacles

Darth Revan wrote:Tuon doesn't seem that interested to me....

So it doesn't indicate any... fascination... that she spends most of her time at the palace following him around and staring at him when he's not looking?

Murrin wrote:

Darth Revan wrote:Tuon doesn't seem that interested to me....

So it doesn't indicate any... fascination... that she spends most of her time at the palace following him around and staring at him when he's not looking?

Interested... but it's hardly what I'd call love...

Though it didn't say they would be in love, it said they would only get married...