Kevin's Watch

If Cails boy can nip back and pick up a hoard of Demonddim with some slick access to the IllEarth stone, then good old Linden should nip back for a few old lords, Berek.Loric, Dameon(we'll not bother Kevin), we could also get a few staff's of lore, a flagon or two of The Blood of the Earth, a few hundred Giants and the Bloodguard(pre curruption of course)we could also send Thomas on a sex offenders treatment program and a 'Hurtloam Awareness' seminar

I do see your point. Linden's party were very careful not to alter too much of the past, but Esmer seemed to mess around with impunity.

Esmer is an Elohim with all of their convictions and a far more volatile nature than should even be possible - they interfere with the way things work, we have to expect he will as well.
And being Elohim, we have to assume he is incapable of breaking the Law of Time with his actions - although he could conceivably manipulate others to do so.

CovenantJr wrote:I do see your point. Linden's party were very careful not to alter too much of the past, but Esmer seemed to mess around with impunity.

He may not be "messing around"! esmerlover in another post suggested Esmer brought the Demondim back just pre-ritual of desecration. THAT would make a lot of sense - and not injure time.

mickwalker wrote:If Cails boy can nip back and pick up a hoard of Demonddim with some slick access to the IllEarth stone, then good old Linden should nip back for a few old lords, Berek.Loric, Dameon(we'll not bother Kevin), we could also get a few staff's of lore, a flagon or two of The Blood of the Earth, a few hundred Giants and the Bloodguard(pre curruption of course)we could also send Thomas on a sex offenders treatment program and a 'Hurtloam Awareness' seminar

An entertaining post, certainly. But Berek, Loric, Damelon, Kevin......they were not enough in the past, why would they be enough now?

What I find myself wondering about is where the Fall came from that the Demondim are using to reach the Illearth Stone... how did they get one that goes that far back?

tonyz wrote:What I find myself wondering about is where the Fall came from that the Demondim are using to reach the Illearth Stone... how did they get one that goes that far back?

Since the Falls encompass every moment of Time in a given area, all they would have to do is create one in ridjeck thome. Since the stone was seated and destroyed there, it would not take too much effort.

And yet, if they knew of its existence all along, why did they not use it before?

More importantly, Esmer is supposed to represent a balance. All he did was talk to the Waynhim for Linden, but as a "balancing response" he tosses a few hundred of the most fearsome possible foes imaginable ****AND**** gives, allows, knows that they will have the illearth stone as well!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe Esmer should go back to the time when Foul was first imprisoned in The Land, beat him down like a WWF guy vs. Richard Simmons, and then break the arch of time anyway... you know, as a "balancing response".

Esmer is too powerful & these so called balancing responses of goodness for a betrayal are ruining the story. Maybe SRD should call it "Ruins of the Story" instead.

And yet, if they knew of its existence all along, why did they not use it before?

How do you know that they did *not* use it before!

And as far as the time travel thing goes it is all *way* to early to judge whether it is well-used.

I am pretty confident that SRD will make things tie up well enough to make a succesfully entertaining story.

Of course, things will *never* quite tie up with time-travel tales - but that is no different from any other aspect of fantasy.

Fantasy is like Ridjeck Thome and Sandgorgon's Doom. It always has an essential flaw, else it cannot exist at all!

If a reader wants things to totally add up, they should have thrown the Chronicles away when Elena drank the EarthBlood, and then pulled someone back from the dead! - or perhaps earlier, when Covenant fell down in front of a police car, and was what! transported to another world!

ZefaLefeLaH wrote:More importantly, Esmer is supposed to represent a balance.

I doubt very much that Esmer represents a balance.
Esmer is unbalanced.
Esmer hides his true intents my helping and harming the same endeavours.
The question is : where lies the sum of his actions?

Esmer is not just a plot device. He represents people. *Real* people behave like that! I am one of them!

Esmer stirs up a hornet's nest of excitement. And just like Kasreyn of the Gyre, he doesn't *give a damn* about the story!

It's his world, it's his life, and he'll do what the hell he likes!

And damn the plot!

I *like* the guy!

Maybe SRD should call it "Ruins of the Story" instead.

There is no story except that which SRD tells. *None* of us knows yet what that will be.

Clearly this one includes many wild characters, and a lot more chaos.

Where I come from, chaos = real!

ZefaLefeLaH, you are assuming Esmer's motivations. None of us really knows what the hell he is about!

Zeph, Esmer didn't 'just talk to some Waynhim'. He ensured that Linden gained the Staff of Law, which is a much bigger and more important thing - in fact, if you believe what Covenant said to Linden, it is vital to her purpose. Of course his response had to be extreme.

And Esmer does not represent balance! The very opposite, in fact - he represents contention, contradiction, opposition, conflict. He is completely incapable of denying his dual nature's desires - restraint is not possible for him, and yet his desires are indirect contradiction of one another. I believe that Esmer made a choice when he was first born - he had to find a way to satisfy both sides of his nature, or he would destroy himself.

To the point of where did the Demondin get the Fall that they are using to access the Illearth stone goes. They are just using the same one that brought them to the future. They couldn't create one. That takes the white gold. Now they are supposed to be very lore savy, and they knew where the stone was just not how to get to it. Remember it took the Staff of Law for Rockworm to get it. Now the Demondin came from Kevins time, before the Stone was discovered. Now suppose that they were in Mount thunder when the Fall took them, being the Lore savy monsters that they are they used it to their advantage and are now controlling the Fall to access a power that in 'their' time they couldn't.

Murrin wrote:Zeph, Esmer didn't 'just talk to some Waynhim'. He ensured that Linden gained the Staff of Law, which is a much bigger and more important thing - in fact, if you believe what Covenant said to Linden, it is vital to her purpose. Of course his response had to be extreme.

And Esmer does not represent balance! The very opposite, in fact - he represents contention, contradiction, opposition, conflict. He is completely incapable of denying his dual nature's desires - restraint is not possible for him, and yet his desires are indirect contradiction of one another. I believe that Esmer made a choice when he was first born - he had to find a way to satisfy both sides of his nature, or he would destroy himself.

That's a bunch of poo. Hey, if you like the story so much you want to blind yourself about it that's fine I guess.

If he cannot deny his dual nature's desires then he will always do something to "BALANCE" whatever he does. If he does good he must balance it with his other nature with some evil.

Creator wrote:

CovenantJr wrote:I do see your point. Linden's party were very careful not to alter too much of the past, but Esmer seemed to mess around with impunity.

He may not be "messing around"! esmerlover in another post suggested Esmer brought the Demondim back just pre-ritual of desecration. THAT would make a lot of sense - and not injure time.

Agreed; and the Demondim have to do something to the LAnd in order to affect time. And that's why Linden brought them forward through the Caesure.

Here's a question to ponder:

In TPTP, Satansfist used the power of the Illearth Stone to reanimate the dead surrounding Revelwood and Revelstone. This he was able to do because Elena broke the Law of Death.

However, in Runes we learn that the Demondim were reanimating the Dead long before the Law of Death was ever broken.

Is this an error in continuity?

Demondim were Vile spirits inhabiting dead bodies - Satansfist was using the spirits of the dead themselves.

Murrin wrote:Demondim were Vile spirits inhabiting dead bodies - Satansfist was using the spirits of the dead themselves.

I agree - I don't think it is an error of continuity. The spirits of the Viles were like Ravers, reanimating flesh that was already dead. The Demondim weren't calling up dead people themselves.

I think the krill of Loric will be making a needed appearance in the next book to deal with the Demondim! A bit more history about how Loric earned his title of "Vilesilencer" would also be welcome as well.