Kevin's Watch

I have read the 1st and 2nd Chronicles many times over in the years since LFB was first published. I started again in July or August in preparation for Runes and something struck me which I had never noticed before. I was struck by the same thing while reading Runes. I am curious if it's just me!

In all the books, while Covenant and/or Linden are in the "real world", the writing seems somewhat shallow and only becomes deeper, richer, more complex after they are in The Land?

What do ya'll think?

The Galley isn't really the place

Sorry, didn't think about where I was. How do I move it, or CAN I move it?

A moderator will have to do it. That means Turiya or Infelice.

And don't worry about it. I've done the same thing myself. It's easily done.

Yep I did it. Im sorry it took me a while to do and .... I hope its in the right place

Can you explain more in-depth what you mean, onewyteduck? Can you give a non-Runes example? (If you'll be using Runes as an example in detail, I would suggest taking your question to the Runes forum.)

I'll be glad to, have to get out the books to try to explain this but I will get back onto this!

Sorry if I seemed abrupt, onewyteduck. I think I kinda, sorta have a vague idea of what you mean, but I want to let you do the talking.

Matrixman, I do apologize for taking so long to respond to this between the holidays, company and a Nyquil induced stupor, I've only recently had time to skim through the books (skim being the key word here!).

First of all, you didn't come off as abrupt so that isn't even an issue.

I wasn't able to come up with a clear cut example, it's just more of an impression. The closet example I could give would be the filming of Wizard Of Oz.....black and white in Kansas, glorious color in Oz. Oz is much more beautiful, more worthy of regard perhaps?

I can narrow it down somewhat......conversations. Conversation with some of the secondary characters (Sherrif Lytton, Meg Roman, the trucker, the parents of the snake bit girl, the hospital staff etc.) was......trite. But that isn't the case when Covenant is in the Land. Then it becomes much richer and fuller.

As I said in my original post, this had never struck me until this go round of reading and it's something I really can't quite put my finger on!

You seem to have a thought on this. I'm interested in hearing it!

...One way that I noticed exactly what you refer to ,,is that..apon reading 1st time Runes..I actually made mental note of how many pages in before having to reach for the Merriam Webster...if that is an indicator of anything..then your hunch is supportable by that metric...Take a step back from observation and you may conclude this to be just another attribute of Donaldson being at the peak of his craft.......MEL

I'm not sure if SRD did this on purpose but it could be a way he shows the example of how people in land "see" things. So he might go into more detail and be more descriptive in the Land to show this.

I think SRD's writing style has changed for the better! Less introspection, less pages of information, but yet he still conveys the richness of the Land, its history, and characterizations.

Now if he would just stop using the word "puissance" all would be right with the world...

Something I have noticed about Runes (worry not, this is hardly a spoiler at all) is the increased use of vulgarity. It doesn't offend me in any way, I swear more than anyone I know, but the first two chrons were, for the most part, devoid of any kind of direct vulgarity, even from Covenant or Linden. Okay, maybe a g-dammit now and then, but that was about it. Now with Runes, I saw the F-bomb dropped a couple of times. I found that very interesting.

James

AcousticJames wrote:Something I have noticed about Runes (worry not, this is hardly a spoiler at all) is the increased use of vulgarity. It doesn't offend me in any way, I swear more than anyone I know, but the first two chrons were, for the most part, devoid of any kind of direct vulgarity, even from Covenant or Linden. Okay, maybe a g-dammit now and then, but that was about it. Now with Runes, I saw the F-bomb dropped a couple of times. I found that very interesting.

James

I noticed the same thing myself and it threw me for a loop at first because SRD barely used profanity in the previous trilogies. I'm not bothered by it either (I've got a tendency to sound like a truck driver when something makes me mad), although it was a bit of a change in style for SRD.

As far as why the style of the books change between the "real" world and the Land, I'd have to agree that this is most likely a deliberate attempt by SRD to contrast the two worlds and make the transition from one world to the other have more of an impact.

Now it's my turn to apologize to onewyteduck for taking so long to respond. I think SRD in an oblique way did address this matter of contrasting style or tone between the real world and the Land, in the course of answering an earlier question in the Gradual Interview:

...the Land clearly exists in a different kind or order of reality than Covenant's "real world". In the Platonic sense, the Land is *more* real than Covenant's "real world." So characters from Covenant's "real world" can expand into the Land, but characters from the Land cannot shrink into Covenant's "real world".

So, yes, I agree with the Wizard of Oz analogy. The unfeeling "reality" of our world is transformed and amplified into the throbbing hyper-reality of the Land, thus everything is experienced in a more alive, more vivid way. It's a fundamental difference that SRD takes pains to illustrate in his descriptions of the Land and Covenant's reactions to it. So for example, it's not just that the people of the Land are physically healthier than their "real" world counterparts: they are healthier in a moral sense as well, since they can feel the natural "rightness" or "wrongness" of something. By ascribing a moral consciousness to the Land, and by being more ornate and formal in describing the Land than in describing the real world, SRD does make everything in the Land appear to operate at a higher level of existence. Everything is symbolic of something, and the symbols talk back. There, I hope I've confused the issue further. Somewhere, SRD is rolling his eyes.

Btw, in that GI session SRD was talking about the differences between Mordant and the Land. Whereas the gulf between the Land and our world is huge and irreconcilable, Mordant isn't that different from our reality. That's why Geraden can just show up happy-go-lucky in Terisa's apartment without a sweat and without big, cosmic Archs crumbling in the process (though with his luck it's amazing he doesn't bump into one along the way). But you'll never see Mhoram suddenly showing up on Covenant's front porch: our reality just isn't compatible with his potent molecules. "...characters from the Land cannot shrink into Covenant's 'real world'."

Matrixman,

Thanks for the input. I do appreciate it. I've read through the GI (admittedly sometimes more thouroughly than others) and had not ever noticed anything addressing my thoughts. Perhaps, I'll go back.

As for adding further confusion, I don't see how could that possibly occur. I'm quite relieved to know that after all these years, after all the rereads, and never picking up on this before, that I wasn't.......imagining something!

The people of the land still speak a rich, vibrant, and luxurious language that the people of our world had long let go of. I think it is just one more way to show the purity of The Land and the rotting of our own.

For me, SDR found an exceptional way to teach me a love for the English language. I often find myself speaking in ways to people that only produces a “Zuh?” in reply. Instead of saying, “Damn girl, you’re so fine” I say, “If only I can find surcease to my aching heart by hearing you utter my name in a sigh”.

Okay…not really. But it sure sounds cool.

Hmmmm. Maybe you should try that one. Someone might just be willing to listen

Onewyteduck, I just noticed: The Motherducker...

LordSlaytan wrote:The people of the land still speak a rich, vibrant, and luxurious language that the people of our world had long let go of. I think it is just one more way to show the purity of The Land and the rotting of our own.

For me, SRD found an exceptional way to teach me a love for the English language.

Back when I was very young, the first author who deeply influenced the way I thought about the English language was Arthur C. Clarke: his clean and efficient prose was, and remains, a great lesson on how to say things clearly. Then along came SRD, who opened my eyes to the enormous possibilities of language (and had me scrambling for the dictionary like everyone else). Where Clarke was ice, Donaldson was fire. I was so swept by the passion of the Chronicles that I started my own half-baked attempts at writing. What I ended up with was just a lot of verbose garbage, and I realized I had forgotten the lesson of simplicity from Clarke. Trying to write like Donaldson with neither his discipline nor mastery of form makes for a hideous mess.

As for the "rotting" of our own language, well...I see that a lot on the internet, in terms of the number of spelling and syntax errors. That's probably not what you were thinking about, Slay: you meant that our speech is becoming too sloppy and lazy, correct? The funny thing is, the English language is renowned for its amazing ability to adapt and mutate over time. What is considered bad or improper English today may turn out to be the norm tomorrow. And what was considered the norm yesterday, like 19th Century Victorian-style English, is seen by most people today to be uncomfortably stiff and formal. The way I see the speech of the Land is that Donaldson keeps the formal dignity of language but strips down the elaborate ornamentation. The result is that the people of the Land speak formally, yet with economy. A mix of medieval and modern. IMO.

Thanks MM.....

Just a brief observation:

Two weeks after the Trade Center was hit, we had to drive over to Ft. Stewart, Ga to pick up my sons car, POA, etc prior to his being deployed.

Ft. Stewart is real close to Savanna and we had an extra day so drove over there to do a little bit of the tourist thing. There is an old fort there, part of the old coastal defense system, that was similar to Ft. Sumpter (and cannot for the life of me, think of the name of it now.) Anyway, it has been restored to it's Civil War condition and has an outstanding museum attached to it.

There were letters there, that the commanding Officer of the Union forces and the commanding Officer of the Confederate forces had written back and forth to each other. I was struck by how eloquent they were, the depth of language that was used, the honor and nobility exhibited by both of these men.

I thought then, how sad that the English language has been reduced to what it is now. We have lost something quite beautiful.