Kevin's Watch

We all agree that Lena's rape was a despicable act by TC.

Suppose it didn't happen. How do my fellow Watchers think the chronicles would have changed?

Some thoughts I have ...

LFB - Atiaran less violent to TC (but he still would have failed at the Celebration of Spring)

TIW - Perhaps Ariaran would NOT have tried to call TC and Hile Troy would not have been called to the Land. Mhoram is High Lord ... if He went for Earthblood ... he is a seer. The Law of Death is NOT broken. The staff of Law is NOT lost. Mhoram calls for the destruction of the Ravers! (or even forbiding them forever from the Land!)

PTP - The Giant triplets are NOT mastered ... no more Ravers. The Bloodguard's vow is NOT corrupted since there is no mission to Coerci. The Despiser's army is vastly reduced since he can't reanimate the dead (Law of Death is whole)! TC accompanied by the Land's arm of Lords, Bloodguard, and Giants kicks Corruption's butt back to Ridjeck Thome where EVERYONE laughs Corruption to death and TC destroys the Illearth Stone

2nd Chronicles - since the Staff of Law is whole Corruption remains a weak minor spirit - NO SUNBANE!!!

Would it have to be retitled as The Chronicles of Polyanna the Unsure?

And on the other hand, Creator, Covenant loses his biggest reason for rejecting the Land. He continues to become more and more entranced by this place (like he was in the early chapters) - his returning health would stop him accepting it quickly, but he wouldn't resist the unreality of the Land so strongly if he was no longer trying to run from his actions. In the end, he'd love the Land, accept it as worth saving, and try to stop Foul. In other words, he'd doom the Land and at the same time lose his ability to cope in the real world, just as he had always feared.

But if the Laws of Life and Death are not broken, TC can never come back if he accepts his fate in the land and dies a natural death. Then Kastenessen comes back and no one in the Land has the power to oppose him. How would that work out in the long term?

That post needs a spoiler tag!

If TC had not committed his crime, it would have been a much more stereotypical fantasy novel with a stereotypical hero, and we probably wouldn't be here talking about it.

Oh Gods!!! Would that mean that WOT would move up to classic standards???

I agree with Murrin, but I'd also like to add that Covenant might never have gone home, or not for a long time, since

Spoiler

Covenant only returned to his own world at the end of TPTP because his summoner, Foamfollower, died in Covenant's clash with the Illearth Stone

What if Lord Foul was a bit more astute, (seemingly) 'saving' TC from Drool, befriending him like he did the Lords of long ago, convincing him to remove the ring for a while, out of curiosity, before TC learns of its importance...

Oh, what we can do with what-if's!

The rape was as unavoidable as his leprosy in the story.

Murrin wrote:And on the other hand, Creator, Covenant loses his biggest reason for rejecting the Land. He continues to become more and more entranced by this place (like he was in the early chapters) - his returning health would stop him accepting it quickly, but he wouldn't resist the unreality of the Land so strongly if he was no longer trying to run from his actions. In the end, he'd love the Land, accept it as worth saving, and try to stop Foul. In other words, he'd doom the Land and at the same time lose his ability to cope in the real world, just as he had always feared.

Covenant's biggest reason for rejecting the Land was his Leprosy. Raping Lena had nothing to do with it. Remember, he wouldn't use his powers because he didn't trust power, and becoming powerful in the Land would doom him to despair when he 'wakes' up (no power in our world).

Sorry, but no rape and the story disintegrates. It is absolutely pivotal to the story arc.

Cail wrote:Sorry, but no rape and the story disintegrates. It is absolutely pivotal to the story arc.

Yes to the story, but not to TC's unbelief.

Loremaster wrote:Yes to the story, but not to TC's unbelief.

Absolutely. Agreed.

Loremaster wrote:Yes to the story, but not to TC's unbelief.

But no rape, no guilt. One of the major motivations that helped him find the center of the paradox.

Also, would Atarian have guided him all the way to Revelstone? Perhaps hitching a ride with Foamfollower or not... Would Covenant form the same kind of bond with FF if Atarian shared the ride? If he did, would he have gone with Hyrim (sp?) and Shetra iwith no Elena?

It would have had too many unforeseen consequences. There's no point even speculating it.

danlo wrote:Oh Gods!!! Would that mean that WOT would move up to classic standards???

seriously, i dont see why there is so much dislike for this series...sure its long, and theres a lot of detail, but the same exact thing has been said of TCTC...just last night i was reading some posts where people try to recommend TCTC to some friends, and were told that they tried to read it but couldnt get into it because SRD's style was too wordy and descriptive

Philistines.

Indeed. I don't understand how anyone with a soul can fail to be moved by SRD's writing.

Personally, I think that if Covenant had not raped Lena he would never have felt a sufficiently strong emotional connection the Land that he would have been able to save it.

yeah, thats one of the main points...the Creator picked Covenant because of his unique background and problems...his past experiences enabled him to make the choices he made, react the way he needed to, and cause the things to happen that needed to happen...nothing specific, of course, but it seems that the Creator looked into Covenants soul, liked what he saw, and chose him...