Kevin's Watch

Firstly, as I read it, the ur-viles used a Fall to escape their time & come to the (Runes) present. I know the answer will probably be something to do with the corruption of time in general, but Falls only started within the last hundred years or so. How did they find a Fall thousands of years ago?

Secondly, are we meant to think that there are still now only 2 Ravers left?

According to the Gradual Interview, although the first fall only came into existence a few hundred years before Linden's return to the Land, once a fall did appear, it existed in every single moment in time in whatever location it was in.

So, there is conceivably a fall everywhere, everywhen. The key point is that the opening to fall (for want of a better term) may only exist in one time.

Therefore, my guess is that the ur-viles sensed a fall was near, even though it's opening was in a different time, and so they used their power to enter it, possibly by making another opening, and then came out again in whatever time they needed to be in.



As for the Ravers, I would like to think that samadhi is gone forever, but that would be too easy.

Sum sui generis
Vs

variol son wrote:
As for the Ravers, I would like to think that samadhi is gone forever, but that would be too easy.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Burp! (excuse me) ... Raver ... yummmmy!!

No. Linden works out that when she gave Joan the other ring (years before) that was the time when the Caesures started appearing. Years in our time is hundreds of years in the Land, so therefore the Caesures could conceivably be far back for the Ur-Viles to go into one.

Oh. Ok. There you go then Ossie. The correct answer.

Didn't Linden give Joan her ring back about 3 months before Roger came? So wouldn't that be the 100 years that has been referred to? (ie, 1 day "real world" = 1 "Land" year)

Loremaster wrote:No. Linden works out that when she gave Joan the other ring (years before) that was the time when the Caesures started appearing. Years in our time is hundreds of years in the Land, so therefore the Caesures could conceivably be far back for the Ur-Viles to go into one.

According to the GI, the falls have little effect on things and were perhaps undetectale before the Law of Life was broken but since the encompass all instances in time from their creation back (IIRC) the post LoL Ur-Viles could detect and use the Fall. Anele was trapped the same way when he went to investigate one and was sent 3000+ years to the time where Linden found him. My understanding was the the Falls became visible and/or more common manifestations when Linden gave Joan back her ring 3 months/90 years before entering the Land. For all we know the same Fall that destroyed Kevin's Watch could be the ones the Ur-Viles used..

I could have sworn I read it was years. Hmmm.

The Falls didn't exist until Linden gave Joan the ring. That is the cause of them. Linden figures this out when shes talking to Esmer the first time. They didn't appear until she gave Joan the ring. Each time Joan pounds herself on the temple she is creating a new Fall. If Joan only hit herself once a day there would be around 100 falls. What surprised Linden is that the White Gold in the 'real' world would effect the Land.
SRD also said that one of the reasons everyone didn't get sucked into a Fall was that they are only a few of them around. Liand tells Linden that the Falls were infrequent, measured in years between.

Loremaster wrote:No. Linden works out that when she gave Joan the other ring (years before) that was the time when the Caesures started appearing. Years in our time is hundreds of years in the Land, so therefore the Caesures could conceivably be far back for the Ur-Viles to go into one.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I read that she only returned the ring to Joan a few months ago, which is about 100 years in Land time. I was also sure, as Jerico says, that this was the cause of the Falls & therefore when they started, (certainly Linden believes this - at this point anyway), although depending on how you read the GI, perhaps not.

Although the Fall gives access to every time, I just automatically guessed that they could only be *accessed* from the time in which they existed, but variol son could be right. I had a much cooler explanation all ready, which was that there *was* one Fall that existed thousands of years before the "current" time: the one that Linden created to get everybody back after recovering the Staff of Law!! It would have been nice if this Fall continued on after they left, & was discovered by the remaining ur-viles (in that time) & used to follow them to the current time, to give aid etc.

Ossie wrote: Although the Fall gives access to every time, I just automatically guessed that they could only be *accessed* from the time in which they existed, but variol son could be right. I had a much cooler explanation all ready, which was that there *was* one Fall that existed thousands of years before the "current" time: the one that Linden created to get everybody back after recovering the Staff of Law!! It would have been nice if this Fall continued on after they left, & was discovered by the remaining ur-viles (in that time) & used to follow them to the current time, to give aid etc.

I can see the ur-viles using the Fall created by Linden, but what about Anele? Didn't Linden target a time after he investigated a Fall? Otherwise they would run the risk of meeting Anele's past self...

I believe one of the GI answers SRD gives is that the Falls are limited UNLESS controlled by someone with powerful lore.

Spoiler

That is why the Demondim can access the Illeath Stone in a time before BOTH the Law of Death and the Law of Life were broken.

I think Jerico's observations about the number of Falls is a good one. Perhaps the smaller Falls are "closed" naturally by the earthpower that remains.

Spoiler

After all, Linden successfully used the Staff of Law to close a Fall.