Kevin's Watch

Bannor knew what had become of his people.

The ur-viles were able to give Vain to Saltheart Foamfollower
... the one person that Covenant would have been willing to
do anything for.

Bannor, Mhoram, Elena, and Foamfollower appeared to
Covenant without any effort on his part. So too did Lena
and her family.


Why didn't Mhoram appear to any of the Lords who came
after him to warn them of their peril? Why didn't Bannor
come to the Haruchai as they were making their way
across the Land and say, "Don't go to Revelstone?"

I know the dead were met in Andelain (sp) ... but why did
they only appear there? Covenant appeared elsewhere ...
why couldn't the others?

Um... I don't believe that the dead can come out of Andelain. Doesn't someone in the book say that? *Goes off and crosses eyes looking for that in the books*

Turiya Foul wrote:Um... I don't believe that the dead can come out of Andelain. Doesn't someone in the book say that? *Goes off and crosses eyes looking for that in the books*

Yup, this is true. I just re-read "The Wounded Land" and Caer Caveral states that the Dead only appear in Andelain and it is what drives many people mad.

Lal

That the dead only appeared in Andelain does not really answer the first question. For if the dead could be reached in Andelain why did not people go there for guidance?

Because everyone was afraid of Andelain. Whoever went there returned mad, if at all. Doesn't sound like the best place to get advice.

the people of the land lacked the earthsense or the history to understand what was going on. this, coupled with the harsh lives they lead would've "raised grim spectres" indeed. can you imagine sunder facing his wife or child? i'd have to do a re-read and check, but wasn't it Linden they were talking about? would the dead from her world (her father or mother, ugh) appear in the Land? is death that universal?

the people of the land lacked the earthsense or the history to understand what was going on. this, coupled with the harsh lives they lead would've "raised grim spectres" indeed. can you imagine sunder facing his wife or child? i'd have to do a re-read and check, but wasn't it Linden they were talking about? would the dead from her world (her father or mother, ugh) appear in the Land? is death that universal?

Hmm.

Maybe Hamiko should have left the Waynhim and led a rebellion
against the Clave. He knew the truth about the Dead and about
Andelain, so he could have gone there for advice.

As for if Linden's Dead could have arrived ... I don't think so. Linden
WANTED to face them ... and she got Kevin instead.

The prospect of confronting dead that a person might have had to sacrifice in order to live under the Sunbane would have naturally given Andelain a bad reputation.

Here's the thing, though:

When did the Dead start appearing in Andelain?

The law was broken well before the Sunbane came
into existence. Can you imagine how enticing that
would be to someone? In the days after the Illearth
War, wouldn't you have wanted to go to speak with
the Ancient Dead of the Land?

KaosArcana wrote: The law was broken well before the Sunbane came
into existence. Can you imagine how enticing that
would be to someone? In the days after the Illearth
War, wouldn't you have wanted to go to speak with
the Ancient Dead of the Land?

Yes, this is the point I wanted to make earlier. It would be possible for people in Mhoram's time to go to Andelain or wherever to consult with the dead. I find it difficult to believe that they did not do so.

But what of the Lords? Why didn't they go to Andelain, and encounter Mhoram? I mean, weren't there a few Lords at the very beginning of the Age of the Sunbane?

i'll have to hunt down the appropriate quote, but i believe it was very specific that the dead were always refered to as "their dead." A personal involvement was required. ah, here...

Hollian eh-Brand. Sunder's Dead, come to greet him.

The sight of her made him breathe in fierce, shuddering
gasps, as if she had set a goad to his heart.

She passed by Covenant, Linden, and the Giants without
acknowledging them. Perhaps for her they did not exist.

I wonder if Mhoram ever had a wife or children. I'd hope so.

i'll have to hunt down the appropriate quote, but i believe it was very specific that the dead were always refered to as "their dead." A personal involvement was required. ah, here...

Kevin wasn't Linden's dead. Nor was he Covenant's.

Excellent point!

true, but...

"We are kindred in our way—the victims and enactors of
Despite. You must heed me. Do not credit that you may exer-
cise choice here. The Land's need admits no choice. You must
heed me. Must!"

The word hammered and echoed and pleaded through her.
Must. He had not come to appall her, meant her no harm.
Rather, he approached her because he had no other way to
reach out among the living, exert himself against the De-
spiser's machinations.

if that holds true for the being who was first used to break the law of death, a being of such power, i think the other dead Lords would be at least as limited.

WOW
I have been away for awhile, but this is an excellent post! I miss talking about the chronicles. A post such as this is the reason that I come to this site!! I
As for the topic I would venture to say that the dead only appear to peopple that have some type of connection to them, family or not. this would explain the reason for people going mad, imagine all the people that you(they) might have wronged in life coming back and soeaking to you.

Sylvanus wrote: if that holds true for the being who was first used to break the law of death, a being of such power, i think the other dead Lords would be at least as limited.

But presumably this was before the breaking of the law of life? I wonder what kind of power the ancients would be capable of wielding after that breaking.

I was thinking again...

...so why can't the dead leave Andelain? And then Andelain gets destroyed...so where do they go then? And why can't they act?

I just found a similar thread from '03...sorry, peeps. But still, the answers there were never quite complete.

I read something Kevin said about "Foul's machinations", but it never seemed to me that the Dead's Andelain held fates were part of Foul's doing?

As you know, The Dead appeared because of the breaking of the Law of Death by Elena Foul-Wife (yikes). I think they were bound to Andelain because it is the Land's purest repository of Earth Power, and probably the best place to .. er... live? for the Dead.

I dont think that Andelain has ever dissapeared, even during the SunBane. But if it did, I don't think it would be the end of them -- the shades of Kevin and TC himself sppeared in other places in the Land.

(Edit) Afterthought -- That being said, Foul might not hold power over them, but he could certainly suggest and influence the dead as he does the living. Kevin's telling Linden of Covenant's Plan to give over the ring to Foul smacks of such machinations.