Kevin's Watch

This might've been done before, but I can't recall. Being an atheist myself, here's three things that'd probably convert me:

1) If my atheism no longer gave me comfort/sense of place, and I needed religion to fill the void.

2) If I fell in love with a theist--or in love period, maybe.

3) If God bonked me over the head with a Nerf bat and waved his hands, going "Look you fool! I'm real!"

Mind you, if God bonked me over the head with, say, lightning or an goat, I would just flat deny his existence. On the other hand, a Nerf bat is just too cool, so I'd definitely believe.

Great post LF...

Nerf bat...baseball or winged variety?

For me...existance of God comes down to a personal experience.

I want to believe...I really do, but I need something substantial, tangible.

If even I had an experience with a ghost, that would change everything that I believe. For if ghosts were possible, what else out there that has been previously unexplained to me might there be that I have been wrong about? My basic foundation that I stand my non-belief on would be shattered.

If any biblical stories could be proven, then that too would edge me closer to belief, but I still would need something tangible, a personal experience.

Just a simple conversation.

I've definitely mentioned this before, but I have no problems repeating myself.

I think a host of heavenly beings coming down to bear me into the presence of god, who would be expected to sufficiently justify all the things I disagree with should do it.

Of course, then I'd have proof, so I wouldn't have to believe. Personally, I don't feel the need to believe in god. I believe in myself, and that's plenty for me. Afterall, the buddha is the one in the hall. The statue made of wood.

--Avatar

For me, the issue isn't as much believing as it is following. At least some Christians believe that Satan used to be among God's greatest angels. (Something like that?) Obviously, he knew that God existed, and everything God stood for, yet he rebelled. Most versions of God could simply make me believe if he wanted to. Snap of the fingers, and I believe. But if it turned out that God does, indeed, cast people into Hell, then I'm not going to love, revere, and follow him anyway.

ask Him, you may be surprised.

I think a host of heavenly beings coming down to bear me into the presence of god, who would be expected to sufficiently justify all the things I disagree with should do it.

Avatar- you positively crack me up!

*bows, smiling*

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Yep I'm with Avatar, the big chap with the big beard would have to tell me himself - "OI! Knob'ead! This good enough?!"

Can't see it though can you?

Saw a fascinating program the other night on British TV. There's a bloke over here called Derren Brown, he's sort of a hypnotist, mind controller type whatever, but adamantly not a psychic. His premise is that most supernatural phenomena (including religions/belief systems) can be explained using mind control. What he did in this program was to go over to the US and attempt to convince 5 leaders of particular faiths that he was the real deal and had some sort of divine/spiritual gift. All the while he would simply be using his mind control techniques.

He went to spiritualist church - identified things about the audience no-one had ever done before - won over the minister spectacularly - and the audience members he picked couldn't believe what he said about them. They were later told of his charade.

HE convinced a Christian minister that he could convert atheists to GOd with a single touch, and he did, in acontrolled environment. HE "deconverted" them as well.

THe point I took was that the mind is almost infinitely powerful and if we understood it we'd probably be able to explain most things.

So, the Big G would have to be there right in front of me in all his glory for me to even start to think about believing.

"Derren Brown: Messiah" - if you can get hold of it, it's well worth a watch and done very objectively and he's not on the evangelical atheist mission you'd think.

yeah, I've seen one of the series over here...the one where he plays chess with 9 chess champs, including several grandmasters.

I think that in the old days, he would have been called a "mentalist". The majority of his skill seems to come from a phenomenal memory, and an excellent understanding of the "Human Condition", well applied.

I particularly like the way that, (in the series I saw at least) he usually explains exactly how he gets his results.

It really blows me away, everytime I'm faced with the reality that the mind is such an incredible instrument. Our potential is so huge, and yet all too often, we waste it so heedlessly.

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Something that would make me acknowledge God's existence? Rational, undeniable proof. Not a divine revelation, which could be merely a trick of the mind, but something material and real. Obviously, this leaves no place for faith.

Fist raised another interesting problem - accepting God's presence doesn't have to lead to his worship.

But if it turned out that God does, indeed, cast people into Hell, then I'm not going to love, revere, and follow him anyway.

I couldn't agree more.

...Atheists?...I contend there are no true atheists. Having no faith is possibly humanly impossible. One may not believe in a supreme deity,,but that same person believes in something..we all put faith in money..ourselves,,lucky charm,,intuition,,etc,,etc. So,, what would it take to put faith in to a Conformed Version of Socially Accepted and Propogated Supreme Deity is the real question....in my case..perhaps a bribe..i'd start "thinking " about it for starters of ..oh...say...2 million bucks, hey!!, you seen what the Euro is at these days? So much for faith in " The Strong Dollar"!..which is reflective of my placed faith in current resident of 1600..Anyway..for 50 percent down and 50 percent upon attending my first Barmitzpha(spl?) i'll state belief and allege faith to the Olde Testament God..For 3 million more,,75 % down and 25% upon being " Healed",,I'll attend Evangolical Ceremonies and clap hands and be possessed by the Spirit of the New Testament God. For 10 million dollars,,100 percent down,,I'll go take excessive amounts of drugs and alcohol,,end up in a religious based federal government tax supported rehab house..find the Lord and forever after state.." I use to be screwed up on drugs, now I'm screwed up on the Lord. Glori Hallalueia!!. Can i get an Amen!?.........MEL

The capitalist spirit is obviously alive ane well though.

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As I understand it a "mentalist" is a nu-slang term or someone who is mental, ie wild.

I like to think of myself as a sometimes mentalist then. Though I find it emerges less with age, which is a bit disappointing

Originally, a "mentalist" was somebody who performed mental "tricks" on stage, revealing details about the audience members, or predicting which object a person would select etc.

Memory tricks also fell under this category, like memorising the names and occupations of every member of the audience at the beginning of the show, and then bidding them each farewell by name.

Of course, often there was a large element of "trickery" involved, including but not limited to magnifying spectacles and lip-reading abilities to be able to make those startling revelations, such as "The lady in row five is having a dinner party tonight."

Very interesting, especially as I've always loved prestidigitation in almost all it's forms. (Except Illusionists like Copperfield.)

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I'm sure you saw the tongue in my cheek though....

Sorry, I tend to take comments at face value most of the time. Although I did wonder, I still usually reply as though people are serious.



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seriousness is perhaps a virtue that sometimes escapes me....

perhaps I should make better use of emoticons (though I'm not their biggest fan)

hamako wrote:seriousness is perhaps a virtue that sometimes escapes me....

And occaisionally, I'm too serious. Whether it's a virtue though, I doubt.

Still, a emoticon would have made all of the difference.



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As Syl said; a simple conversation.

And tell me why you're powerful enough to create a universe yet allow such pain to exist in your creation--

Are you omnipotent or not?