DT: King's Self Allusions

[Guest]

I had posted this on another thread, but I pulled it and put it here. I hope no one minds.

I'm on Wolves of the Calla now, just beginning. I think the books are great. I especially like the little ways Stephen King alludes to other books and stories. I can't wait to get through the next ones. This certainly was King's Magnum Opus.

I would love to hear where people found King's references, because I'm sure I've missed some. I have read the "family tree" of SK books, but was wondering specifically where things were found and if there are smaller things thrown in here and there. I guess they should be spoilers so I'll start:

Gunslinger:

Spoiler

The man in Black is from the Stand

The Drawing of the Three:

The Waste Lands:

Spoiler

The reference to the turtle has to be from IT
Talitha is too close to Tabitha (his wife)

Wizard and Glass:

Spoiler

Kansas is from the Stand

Wolves of the Calla:

Spoiler

Father Callahan is from Salem's Lot
Stephen King is on the Restaurant of the Mind blackboard
The author of Charlie the ChooChoo is now Bachman

Song of Suzannah:

The Dark Tower:

[Warmark]

Insomnia.

Spoiler

both The Crimson King and the Tower appear,
as does Patrick Danville.

Everythings Eventual.

Spoiler

a story involving Roland, set before A Gunslinger. Also featuring a story of the Breaker who name escapes me at the moment.

[Gart]

Hearts in Atlantis.

Spoiler

The first of the stories is heavily involved with Ted Brautigan, the chief Breaker.

[Spiral Jacobs]

Wow I'm giving this thread a major bump

I'm reading The Dark Tower part 7 right now. I've always been in two minds about King's self-references. It can really tie his universe together if you know what he's talking about, but it can also work against him. For example, Bleak House references the Dark Tower series in a major way (this is not a spoiler, right?), which gets kind of obscure if you haven't read any DT.

And then there are little things which just annoy me: right in the beginning of DT7, there's the following passage (not spoiling anything):

"...bounced beneath one of the tables, and there (like a certain paper boat some of you may remember) passes out of this tale forever."

This obviously points to the beginning of It, and it's just so damn irrelevant and self-indulgent.

[duchess of malfi]

I'll admit a lot of those references were either completely missed by me, or did not have a lot of impact on me. Other than the Dark Tower books, I have not read much by King in years. When I was a teenager I read a lot of his classics like Salem's Lot and the Stand and the Shining - and those were all read so long ago, while I caught references and characters, I am sure the impact on me was much less than on a major King fan.

[Warmark]

Ah, i remember wondering what the paper boat referred to, thanks for clearing it up.

[Roland of Gilead]

Well, as a lifelong reader of King (became a fan in 1980, and I've read everything he's written, as it was published), I enjoy the obscure references to earlier works myself.

But nevertheless, I can understand when a reader describes it as annoying or self-indulgent, and that paper boat one could certainly qualify.

[Avatar]

I enjoy the references to other books, but that specific one, about the boat, I see as ore part of his compulsive foreshadowing, which I hate, and ranges from the blatant, (like in Pet Semetary) to the subtle.

--A

[Spiral Jacobs]

I usually enjoy references as well, but only when it serves a purpose. This particular reference was so out of place that to me, it felt like a certain smugness 'hey I'm so well-read that people will pick up on this random reference which I've thrown into the middle of a suspenseful passage for no reason'. IMO, if he'd left out the phrase between parentheses it would've been recognised by a fan anyway, without confusing everyone else.

But then I haven't gotten very far in the book yet, so there may be more to come, in which case it may have served a purpose after all.

[Avatar]

Can't wait to hear what you take on it is. I still can't make up my mind...some day's I think it was brilliant and inevitable...some days, I hate it. (Just reread it myself actually.)

--A