Kevin's Watch

This is an honest question, sort of.

I see a lot of threads in this forum about various classical composers, and there are clearly a significant number of Watchers who enjoy listening to classical music. Seeing this got me thinking. You see, I don't particularly like classical music. I mean, I don't dislike classical - it can be pretty good. What puzzles me is that even though I can listen to a piece of music and know it is good, I can't enjoy listening to it. I get no enjoyment whatsoever from listening to it; it inspires very little emotion in me. Why?
I suppose there's no explaining the human mind.

Do any of you experience the same indifference toward any particular musical genre?



(okay, I know, strange topic, but I got myself thinking, and that's never a good idea)

Conditioning. That's the best way I can sum it up. We live in a world where classical music is no longer the norm, and people are groomed into a world where the accepted music is very, very different. Look at the classical period (1750-1820) and the Romantic (1820-1900). Now, juxtapose them against 20th century music. You'll encounter worlds of difference, whether it be in melody, harmony, rhythm, color, texture, form, you name it. Here's just a fraction of the differences you'll encounter:

Most classical melody is short, balanced phrases that create tuneful melodies; in the romantic period you see long, singable lines with powerful climaxes and chromatic inflections for expressiveness; in the twentieth century melody is usually wide-ranging disjunct lines, often chromatic and dissonant, angularity accentuated by use of octave displacement.

I guess I'm trying to say that, if all you're used to is today's music, you're going to be looking at things from a very different perspective. The music of the past is probably going to look like an alien landscape, and you might wonder what's appealing about it.

Of course, sometimes we can never pinpoint exactly why we don't like something. It could be completely personal.

I suppose the best cure to not being moved by classical music is listening to it a lot. Most people these days hear it once or twice or sporadically and move on. I suppose classical is rather overwhelming. It's amazingly dense, complex music; a lifetime of listening to it will not unveil all its intricacies, because there's always so much to find--and you'll never find it all. It's daunting. Naturally, I can't blame today's listeners when they're more interested in a one-day outing with classical, rather than a prolonged adventure. It's challenging music, and you have to challenge yourself to like it. By comparison, today's music is geared to serve, which oftentimes subordinates musicality and any emotional depth.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong on all of this. Just my ramblings, anyway.

It may depend on how your brain is wired-to me listening to classical music, depending on the piece, is place and mood specific and emotional. Perhaps your exposure to it and your knowledge of the history that surrounds the composer or piece has to be factored into it too. Certain march music can be grating and the atonal and avante guarde stuff can be downright horrifying.

My parents played the classical radio station all the time and it became elevator music after awhile-but when they injected a touch of jazz with it and played Miles Davis' Sketches of Spain at one particular party I said a loud WOW! When I was seven they took me to see Leonard Bernstien conduct the NY Philhamonic Orchestra at Carnegie Hall. I couldn't, for the life of me, remember what they were playing but the acoustics, the percision of each instrument, the beauty of the french horns and the ferocity of the conductor totally blew me away.

Seeing a string quartet in an old abbey, or listening to chamber music in a cozy amber-lit venue on a cold winter night. To me it all has to do with mood, setting and emotions. Playing Handel's Messiah at Easter or Vivaldi's Seasons in sunny high Spring or hearing the prelude to Offenbach's Orpheus in Hell while comtemplating the complexities and interconnections of life. Or putting certian Bach on to help you escape or think mathematically or Water Music when you really need to mellow out. I don't listen to classical that much, lately, but I really appreciate it when it's needed.

It's a matter of taste I think. My mother played a lot of classical music when I was growing up, and while I can appreciate it, and appreciate a quality performance, I just don't like it. I own several classical guitar CDs, aesthetically I don't care for them, technically they're brilliant.

I wasn't really exposed to much classical music (or jazz for that matter) until I was older. I still feel as though I am in a learning process for both. For me, with classical, it takes a lot more time and effort than it does to listen to an average rock CD. I have to have the time to relax and really pay close attention to what the composer is trying to say. Finding chunks of time to listen to a symphony can be difficult.

And then, as Foul and Danlo both pointed out, there is a huge spectrum of types of classical music. I tend to have an extreme dislike of a lot of the stuff from the twentieth century, though there are other pieces, such as Bolcom's Songs of Innocence and Experience that are awesome. It may well be that I just haven't figured composers like Ives out yet. On the other hand, it might be personal preference.

If you ever decide to explore classical, you might want to start out with fun pieces, like Saint Saen's Carnival of the Animals...ease into it...or you might want to start out with something passionate and uplifting like Beethoven's Ninth.

On the other hand, it may just be that you don't personally care for it, which is perfectly OK. Everyone in the world has different tastes, and the world would be a much sadder place if people did not.

Cail wrote:I own several classical guitar CDs

Try some Ottmar Liebert! True, he studied briefly with Sergovia but he just trips out wherever he feels like tripping out! (splashes of classical but also little splashes of Santana and Hendrix)

danlo wrote:Try some Ottmar Liebert! True, he studied briefly with Sergovia but he just trips out wherever he feels like tripping out! (splashes of classical but also little splashes of Santana and Hendrix)

I've heard of him. He's contemporary classical, is he not? I'll give him a shot.

Murrin wrote:Do any of you experience the same indifference toward any particular musical genre?

Maybe the Blues and much of Folk music. To copy your words, Murrin, I don't dislike them, but neither do these genres inspire much emotion in me.

Lord Foul wrote:Conditioning. That's the best way I can sum it up.

I agree. But as Cail said, it could simply be a matter of taste. You like it, or you don't.

danlo wrote:Certain march music can be grating and the atonal and avante guarde stuff can be downright horrifying.

duchess wrote: I tend to have an extreme dislike of a lot of the stuff from the twentieth century

Y'know, I was just thinking about creating a thread to discuss some of the interesting stuff I heard last week at The New Music Festival. It's an annual, intense eight day marathon of music featuring works by living composers only. Over the years at this festival, I've heard some of the most invigorating and moving music on the planet, as far as I'm concerned. But I'll just keep it to myself for now.

Cail wrote:I've heard of him. He's contemporary classical, is he not? I'll give him a shot.

He can be (Leaning Into the Night & Borrasco), but he's developed his own style that's hard to classify called Nuevo Flamenco and music stores still have a rough time deciding if he's New Age or World Beat. He was actually one of Santana's proteges and they do two fantastic duets on Solo Para Ti. Some of his stuff sounds like "Magnificent Seven" Western themes, he also incorporates alot of Samba, Rhumba, Bossa Nova and Merenge: very hard not to dance to!

I'll definately pick up some of his stuff this week. I'll let you know what I think. Thanks Danlo!

for some classical stuff updated check out

www.thankstogravity.com/

a New Hampshire band. they do Canon in D (Palchebel) and check out their Ode To Joy.
along with great rock songs, intelligent lyrics.

I love classical music, but am not too keen on most opera. Maybe it's because of the language barrier, but I think the part I dislike most is the obvious over the top singing style. There are exceptions to the rule, however. I love theopera piece in "Pretty Woman"...

By far the majority of music inspires absolutely no emotion in me. The only exceptions are "songs" with a lyrical content that "speaks" to me. I like my music to have a message of some sort.

I enjoy classical music, but to me, it, along with practically all types of music, it serves as "background" rather than something I listen to consiously, and pay attention to.

A large part of this possibly stems from the fact that I'm slightly tone deaf. Not severely, but say you hit two keys on a piano that are next to each other, I'm often unable to tell the difference, especially in the higher and lower ranges. This means that what you hear, and what I hear, are actually two different things.

If there's a CD playing, and I'm doing something else, like reading, the music doesn't even register (unless it's offensively loud), and I'm likely to sit up a couple of chapters later, and wonder when the music stopped.

I grew up exposed to a wide variety of music, several members of my family play the piano, and my grandmother composed her own music, but for me, it's largely a foreign country.

Give me Lyrics! And "meaningful" lyrics at that. The "doosh doosh" of modern electronic music, and mindless, repetitive lyrics does little bit irritate me.

Don't know how much this has contributed to the thread, but seeing as I made my first post in Vespers today, I'm poking around to see what I can comment on.

--Avatar

Avatar wrote:By far the majority of music inspires absolutely no emotion in me. The only exceptions are "songs" with a lyrical content that "speaks" to me. I like my music to have a message of some sort.

Personally, I find that, despite most classical music having no words, the feelings they exhibit and the messages they carry reach a far deeper, more intricate human understanding than any word, spoken or sung. Beethoven is a fine example of this; he brought images of himself and his anguish into his music. Of course, that's just me. I'm probably not tone-deaf. Then again, some of the music I record might suggest otherwise.

Okay, Avatar, we'll give you a full pardon for not being able to enjoy music due to your condition. There's not much you or medical science can do about tone deafness, I guess.

I'm just the opposite, in that music inspires a lot of emotions in me. I agree that much of the electronic dance music out there is mindless, but there are exceptions (and I'll name an all-time favorite for the hell of it: Delerium's 2000 release, Poem).

So while the repetitive, mindless kind of stuff is more or less just background noise to my ears as well, a GOOD piece of music can never be merely in the background to me. I can't read a book while a favorite piece of music plays: my attention would be torn between the two. I also agree with Lord Foul about the qualities of pure instrumental music: it exists in its own realm and has its own meaning, beyond the province of mere words.

Matrixman wrote:I can't read a book while a favorite piece of music plays: my attention would be torn between the two.

I'm glad I'm not alone in that.

Heh, I'm not tone deaf, but I am tone confused. I can hear two notes and know they're different, but I often couldn't tell you which is higher/lower. The upshot of which is: I don't sing

As for lyrics... Good lyrics can move and inspire me, and truly diabolical lyrics can grate, but the main thing is the music. I can overlook hideously bad lyrics if the music is incredible.

But back on topic: Never heard much classical, so no comment

But back on topic:

But back off (my own) topic again: I'm very into music, and for the whole experience of it, not just one particular aspect. The vocals seem more important than the actual lyrics, but the vocalist doesn't have to be amazing for me to like the song, heh. I guess it's just the whole sound I like. And rhythm. A rhythm is important.
As for listening to music and reading/working/etc - It depends on the music, but not in such a simple way as 'this music I can listen too while working', 'this will always distract me', or anything like that - it depends what mood I'm in, really. If I pick the right music, it can actually make me more productive; it's just a question of which music will motivate me on a particular day.

Murrin wrote:If I pick the right music, it can actually make me more productive

YES! I had to write an essay and turn it in the same day, but couldn't get it to begin. Luckily, I had my MP3 player with me, and Beethoven's Eroica was on it. Needless to say, as it played, I wrote rather feverishly.

I struggle to do anything at all while music is playing. It niggles at me - very much like the feeling when you know you were about to say something but can't remember what. That kind of fidgety plucking at threads of consciousness sensation. Grr, it gets turned off sooner or later - or I stop whatever I was doing.

I'm with you Cov.Jr, I can't read with music on, much less the TV. I have a bad enough time driving with music on, I tend to drive the tempo.