Kevin's Watch

Okay, only the Guilty have power..he's said that often enough.
But what is TC really guilty of?

I know, I know, Lena..the Rape (Pretty much unforgivable if you ask me)

Is that the guilt that drove him for the rest of the series(s)?
Of course he was a jerk to most people in the 1st Chrons, and refused to do much of anything at times, but does one get powerfull guilt from that?

One thing that I never understood, was why he felt so guilty for Elena's death..that one to me, was one thing he wasn't guilty of. It was her manipulations, crazed determination, and strange loyalty that broke the Law of Death, and Ultimatly killed her.

I know he was there, and he tricked the Bloodguard; but he did try to stop her, she was just too far gone to hear him.

Any thoughts?
Was he guilty of Elena's death, or does he just have an inferiority complex?

Covenant was in some ways responsible for Elena's death; his bargain directly lead to the events at Rivenrock and beyond.

Agreed. And he also seems to be the kind of person who seizes guilt wherever he can get it. Despite being a git for most of the First Chrons, he blames himself for a great many things; I think it's just his nature, possibly exaggerated by his biolgical impotence.

..Thomas Convenant IS GUILTY OF GETTING LEPROSY. Non cureable,for the rest of his life ,GUILTY!....MEL

dlbpharmd wrote:Covenant was in some ways responsible for Elena's death; his bargain directly lead to the events at Rivenrock and beyond.

Yeah, but she was going to go to Rivenrock because of Amok.
Okay technically Amok showed up because of Covenant..but he Confessed at Rivenrock, he told her about the deal, heck he even shaved!!
So why-oh-why does he blame himself? He blamed himself so much he wouldn't clean up the cut on his forehead back in the Real World.

I think Lurch hit it on the head

lurch wrote:..Thomas Convenant IS GUILTY OF GETTING LEPROSY. Non cureable,for the rest of his life ,GUILTY!....MEL

Or at least that's how he felt, so he blamed himself for everything that he did.

Sure Covenant shaved, and he told Elena he was doing so because he was going to stop fighting against the Land, stop trying to disprove it.

But it was a lie. He was providing Elena was fake emotional support, because in the end he wanted her to be responsible for all those terrible things that he was certain were going to happen to the Land.

And terrible things did happen because of what Elena did when she commanded Dead Kevin from the grave. But she only got there because Covenant supported her purpose, against his better judgement, and because he weasled the name of the power of the Seventh Ward out of Morin, despite not really wanting to insult the Bloodguard in that way.

This he did so that in the end it would be all Elena's fault. The thing is that at the last he tried to stop her because he grew to care about her, and his guilt I think stems from the fact that he helped her reach the Earthblood for such a selfish reason and then couldn't prevent her from making such a terrible mistake.

I'll post more when I get home and have the books with me.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Atiaran also (tho he could do little about it...) fed him with guilt after the Celebration of Spring...

He felt guilty because he was the reason she was in the position that she was in. She was created from a horrific act and born into a world having the shame of his act upon her. Thus with her obsesion with the earthblood it was sure that he Thomas had lead her to her doom.

Gary

variol son wrote:Sure Covenant shaved, and he told Elena he was doing so because he was going to stop fighting against the Land, stop trying to disprove it.

But it was a lie. He was providing Elena was fake emotional support, because in the end he wanted her to be responsible for all those terrible things that he was certain were going to happen to the Land.

And terrible things did happen because of what Elena did when she commanded Dead Kevin from the grave. But she only got there because Covenant supported her purpose, against his better judgement, and because he weasled the name of the power of the Seventh Ward out of Morin, despite not really wanting to insult the Bloodguard in that way.

This he did so that in the end it would be all Elena's fault. The thing is that at the last he tried to stop her because he grew to care about her, and his guilt I think stems from the fact that he helped her reach the Earthblood for such a selfish reason and then couldn't prevent her from making such a terrible mistake.

I'll post more when I get home and have the books with me.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Sp personlly, who thinks it was Covenant's fault, what happened at Rivenrock-or was it Elena's?

Obviously-in the end it was all Covnenants fault--(Because of the Rape)--

I never got the impression that he wanted Elena to get the blame for everything, but I could be misstaken--I just think he feel Guilty for everything --his fault or not.

drew wrote:

variol son wrote:Sure Covenant shaved, and he told Elena he was doing so because he was going to stop fighting against the Land, stop trying to disprove it.

But it was a lie. He was providing Elena was fake emotional support, because in the end he wanted her to be responsible for all those terrible things that he was certain were going to happen to the Land.

And terrible things did happen because of what Elena did when she commanded Dead Kevin from the grave. But she only got there because Covenant supported her purpose, against his better judgement, and because he weasled the name of the power of the Seventh Ward out of Morin, despite not really wanting to insult the Bloodguard in that way.

This he did so that in the end it would be all Elena's fault. The thing is that at the last he tried to stop her because he grew to care about her, and his guilt I think stems from the fact that he helped her reach the Earthblood for such a selfish reason and then couldn't prevent her from making such a terrible mistake.

I'll post more when I get home and have the books with me.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Sp personlly, who thinks it was Covenant's fault, what happened at Rivenrock-or was it Elena's?

Obviously-in the end it was all Covnenants fault--(Because of the Rape)--

I never got the impression that he wanted Elena to get the blame for everything, but I could be misstaken--I just think he feel Guilty for everything --his fault or not.

Ah, no drew, not blame. This has nothing to do with blame, in my opinion. More about responsibility. Whether things turned out good or bad, he wanted someone else, anyone else, to make the decisions and take the responsibility.

In Elena, I believe Covenant saw someone who would take his responsibility from him, so whatever happened, it would be her doing. That way he wouldn't get blamed for the bad things, or praised for the good things, that happened. After all, I don't think he wanted the adulation of the Land any more than he wanted the blame.

However, despite his bargain, and despite his input into the dilemma of Elena's birth, it was in the end her decision to drink of the Earthblood, her decision to summon Kevin and thus break the Law of Death. As SRD says, she could have made a command that saved the earth. She certainly had the capacity to save as well as damn. Unfortunately she damned.

Sum sui generis
Vs

people did things in the land because of him, in his name, and for his benefit...suffered because of him, so that he could survive to take on Foul...indirectly and directly...triock hated covenant, lived with Lenas madness his entire life after he first appeared, and yet he made sure covenant survived, because he was the lands salvation...alot of people made those decisions...some could handle it, come could not...Covenant was the cause of alot of suffering and strife for the people of the Land, and he knew it...therefore he tried to make restitution any way he could

He blamed himself for the burning of Soaring Woodhelven. He took his "bloody ring" as a sign that he was becoming corrupt, and felt guilty for that. He felt guilty for his killing cavewights at the battle of Woodhelven. He felt guilty for his inaction, for his unbelief, and for the way he pushed people of the Land away in order to preserve his sanity.

Also, in some sense, he felt like every bad thing that was happening to the Land via Drool and Foul were all his fault because they were just manipulations for the sole purpose of getting Covenant to use his wild magic to destroy the Arch of Time so Foul could escape.