Kevin's Watch

The Haruchai, Bloodguard, what an amazing arc of change they have gone thru in the TC Chrons. Stoic, and keen fighters, the Sleepless ones , Takers of the Vow, and when taken to extremity, found out even they weren’t perfect, couldn’t keep their pledge. Tough lesson to learn I’d say. And now in Runes, cast as the Masters, defenders of the faithless or lack of Faith, but still unchanged in an important way.

In the metaphoric landscape that is how I perceive them. “ Faith”, or more specifically, Faith In One Self.. There has been much written here of them and many have seen fit to have one of the Haruchai as their Avatar. Well, we all have faith in something. The Haruchai had extreme faith in them selves. They believed they could live up to their perceived demands of servicing the Lords. And, alas, their faith in them selves was severely shaken. All of that leading to a 180 degree turn around,,faith in the Lack of Choice. ..or il-faith,they became the ur-faithful. They have grown to believe in having no faith in the folks., that the people of the Land shouldn’t have knowledge to make choices, that Faith is excuse enough to administer their belief over a population simply because you can, that a future with choices is frightening and insecure and To Believe In That, to have Faith in that Belief in the name of perserverience, highly reflects their “ unbalanced” nature. Faith, all by itself, alone, with out input from other sources, is a Kevins Watch about to experience its last caesure. Their Faith in themselves has been extended to being greedy with the future of the Land.

The extreme nature, extreme in their execution of the Vow, extreme in physical abilities, etc, makes it difficult for me to see the Haruchai in less than fanatical terms. They personify almost the Blind Faith extreme. They definetly have been trying to Blind the LandsPeople to a whole existence. Their arrogance lays in the belief that their administration of what is Controlled, will lead to a preferred future over that of a multi choice future. Freedom of Choice allows for the Ritual of Desecration. Lack of knowledge, lack of Choice allows for a dull, dead future, one of the Haruchai having it all their way.

As pointed out in Runes, the Haruchai have a very difficult time dealing with their failures. Their extremism almost doesn’t allow for the concept of failure. This is where they differ from the Ramen. The Ramen sacrifice willingly, accept death as part of the possibilities of the commitment, where as the Haruchai started with the belief that they were uncorruptable, pure in their devotion, and appear to meter death out to the threat as priority. There is a subtle difference. The Ramen’s devotion is pointed outward, extended to the ranyhim. The Haruchai is pointed inward. It involves, the Lords, the Land but always ends with the Haruchai evaluating themselves against their commitment.

The constant contention between the Ramen and Haruchi seems to be a difference in their perspectives. The Ramen worship the Pure EarthPower that is the Ranyhim. The Haruchi appear to worship their own Faith. …..MEL

The Haruchai, to me, seem to think in terms of All or Nothing.
For the Haruchai, there is Success or Failure. There are no mitigating factors of any sort. Hergrom failed against the Sandgorgon. The fact he could not win is irrelevant. Hergrom was a failure, a disgrace, and a loser.
The Haruchai have long and perfect memories. And once a Haruchai fails, he is a failure forever. There is no redemption, period. For all eternity, the Haruchai is remembered as a disgrace and a loser. Such is the case with Hergrom. Such is the case with Cail, too.

The Haruchai are extravagance personified. The Bloodguard Vow is an example of that extravagance. Their reaction to the slaughter of the Giants is another example (everyone was horrified and in tears. But when a BLOODGUARD loses control and starts to cry, that is ... there is no ordinary human reaction that compares.)
The joy of the Haruchai on Starfare's Gem must have been incredible.
Look at Brinn. He was always extravagant, and in the end sacrificed himself in the ultimate combat against the supreme opponent. To his people, he is virtue and triumph personified.
Stave is extravagant. In this case, he is extravagant in the defense of Linden Avery. He is willing to tell his own people the foundation of all their beliefs is ludicrious, that they live in a fantasyland.
The reaction of the Haruchai to Stave was equally extravagant, and tragic. One must wonder if Linden is going to rectify this, as she said she would (if something like this happened) earlier in the book?

I would accuse the Haruchai of pride, but it's more like Absolutism.
That is, the Haruchai spend a long time making up their minds ... and once made up, they stay made up forever.
Thus, the Haruchai debated for centuries about warding the Land, and once they made up their minds, they became the Masters of the Land. And, they are absolutely convinced of the rightness of what they do. They are Absolutely Right.
Stave has shown how truly exceptional a Haruchai he is, by realizing he was not right. He listened to the Raynhim, and he decided he was quite wrong.
Stave did NOT decide he was wrong because he FAILED, as Cail and Brinn, and the Bloodguard, DID. Stave decided he was wrong because he LISTENED to someone else. That is what makes Stave so incredibly exceptional.

Do, or Do Not.
Succeed or Fail.
Extravagance in everything.
Absolutism in everything.
That is the nature of the Haruchai.

And one more thing: it is obvious the Haruchai cherish their women profoundly.
It is unthinkable that the Haruchai would allow their women to fight (as, say, the Ramen women fight.) Not because Haruchai women cannot fight. I'm guessing they can fight quite well.
I think the Haruchai men would kill themselves if they saw their women dying in battle. If, somehow, Lord Foul managed to slaughter the female Haruchai population, I believe the entire male Haruchai population would commit suicide on the spot.
For good or for bad, their love for their women (and vice versa, but Haruchai men do not seem to consider this) is so extreme it is off all the scales.
Divorce amongst Haruchai must be literally beyond their imagination, and horrific beyond Lord Foul himself.
Just my musing ...

Excellent post, Edelaith!

Hergrom was a failure, a disgrace, and a loser.

Tough words to read - but you're right, I think. Tuvor, Morin, Thomin - would all be considered failures by their brethren, would they not?

I hate the Haruchai in their current incarnation. It’s not so much hate toward the race, but toward their attitude. Their stubbornness is very frustrating. While reading, your thinking “don’t you get it, you stubborn Haruchai!” as you slap them across the face.

Also you have to hate them now since they have suppressed all the people of the Land. To me this is just the ultimate evil, even though the Haruchai think they are doing it as a good gesture. I just wish Linden would just wipe them all out, so everyone could be free. LOL! Throughout all the Convenant series you get frustrated with them, even all the way back to Lord Foul’s Bane, you could relate to Thomas’ frustration in that book.

But, I give Donaldson credit, because he wants you to get frustrated with them. So, he’s doing his job, because he’s created that emotion within me.

Ellester wrote:I hate the Haruchai in their current incarnation. It’s not so much hate toward the race, but toward their attitude. Their stubbornness is very frustrating. While reading, your thinking “don’t you get it, you stubborn Haruchai!” as you slap them across the face.

How do you know that in the end it won't turn out that they are right? After all, it's not Foul that threatens the Earth this time - maybe their plan worked?

Ede..I like the choice of words,,extravagant, absolute. Quite agree in the dillineation, refinement.

The examples you have provided are all singular in nature. Now, the author has left us at the end of Runes, with the whole bunch having to deal with doubt. And probably, they will be just as extreme and extravagant in their dealing with the doubt. Again, in the figurative landscape, what absolutes held by one Linden Avery were( are) extravagant in costs to her and therefore negotiable? Perhaps her belief that Joan was healable, that the presense o fthe wedding ban would help bring Joan around to accessibilty?..mere suggestion.

Interesting take on the women haruchai. I hadn't even considered their presense in the TCC. Perhaps SRD will take the haruchai's doubt as an opportunity to introduce their presense. I just can't help seeing a version of Thelma Two Fist...maybe not, maybe completly subserviant,,.again, based on the extreme extravagance already pointed out....

I really look foward to how the author has these extravagant extremists deal with being laffed at by the Ranyhim. It reminds me of an article written years ago,,about if Jesus was around today to see what became of his " life"..he'd be laffing his arse off. How would one deal with that?...MEL

Is there not an element of misogyny to the Haruchai as well? They gave up women to swear the oath - implying some kind of impurity and fallen state associated with them. And they certainly never have been keen on Linden.

On that note, if they're true to form, Covenant will have the Masters eating out of his half hand in no time flat - they just love his brand of uncompromising lunacy. They even cut off their hands to be like the old boy. Welcome to the cult of Thomas.

eating out of his half hand in no time

I think they might well consider Morin and Tuvor failures.
The Haruchai confound me. I try to describe them, but I never get it right. They are just plain frustrating and indescipherable.
Cail said: 'Is not Corruption always sure of it's own rightness?' to Linden Avery.
Now, the Haruchai are certain of their rightness in their Mastery of the Land, and the evil of the use of Earthpower. Yet they proclaim to oppose Corruption. LOL.

It's all or nothing with them. The use of Earthpower is good, or it is bad. Period.
The fact that the Earthpower was corrupted into the Sunbane, doesn't count. The fact that Earthpower can be misused, as Elena misused it, doesn't count.
The fact that the use of Earthpower to do good things doesn't matter either.
The Haruchai have decided that ALL use of Earthpower is evil. Period. Forever.

And even that is not enough for these Absolutists.
All knowledge of Earthpower must be suppressed. And that is not enough.
Anyone who might visit who ... might ... have knowledge of Earthpower must not visit. And even that is not enough.
Nobody in the Land must travel far, for they ... might ... run into someone who perceives Earthpower.

The only problem is, Absolutism has never been an answer to Lord Foul. A point that has been proven again and again. The Haruchai are not stupid, but somehow they keep missing this point.

Covenant was an imperfect being.
Let's see: he was a murderer and rapist ... and a sociopath at the beginning.
He was also braindead half the time at the start, veering from one disaster to the next without forethought, without rational thinking, without thinking at all. An emotional wreck, a walking disaster.
The kind of person you could not trust with a nerf sword, Thomas Covenant defeated Lord Foul twice and healed Linden Avery of her serious mental illness to boot.
There is a lesson here. Imperfection works against Lord Foul. Zones of gray exist. But time and again, the Haruchai don't get the lesson.
Maybe they just can't. But Stave seems to be a sole exception, for he DOES seem to get the point, and I must thus be suspicious of the rest of the Haruchai as a result.

Edelaith wrote:The Haruchai have decided that ALL use of Earthpower is evil. Period. Forever.

No! They have decided that ALL use of Earthpower serves Corruption. A subtle, but important and non-trivial distinction.

They don't consider Earthpower evil, nor anyone who weilds it. But they believe that Earthpower lures people into a precarious position, one which Lord Foul can capitalize on, and which in fact he relies on in order to achieve his ends.

By denying the use of Earthpower, Lord Foul will have no means of prosecuting Corruption, and no reason to go after the people of the Land.

Again, the devil advocates: isn't this all true?

..I found the self maiming by the haruchai the final proof of the fanatical Faith I assigned to them. That is a metaphor in its own rite imho. In other words,,when faith becomes extreme, its like hurting yourself on purpose. I was and remain aghast at the thought . Again..how does one react to The Raynhim laffing at your disfigurement?..ooooouuuuuccccchhhh!

Perhaps the mysogyny angel will be further developed, perhaps not. But, if the author wants to really grind it in,,really poor salt in the wound, etc, etc,,he could go there and make it an issue paraded in front of Linden. There seemed to be a taste of it in the air of the last chapter....MEL

True, Wayfriend.

I think Kasreyn had the key that the Haruchai keep missing, over and over and over again. Kasreyn stated that he created his works with PURE gold, and that his creations kept failing. He went on to explain that for anything to last in an imperfect world, some kind of imperfection must lie within. This is a concept that the Haruchai refuse to acknowledge, even though they've been slapped in the face with it time and time again. I just hope that one day they wake up and smell what they've been shoveling. I think that all the world's troubles can ultimately be traced back to the Haruchai.

IMHO, I would love to see in the remade Universe, Liand form a new Council of Lords and the Haruchai bowing down to him to kiss his -! NM hehe

I think in this, the Haruchai are wrong. All they have succeeded in doing is creating the very thing they once helped destroy. Call them Masters, Haruchai, whatever you want to call them. I compare them more to the clave. Harsh I know, but consider, they want CONTROL over everything. Who goes where, what they do in their lives. All they need now to finish it off, is well, just start killing people for their blood.
They have denied the people of the land simple choice to live the way they want. What a sad turn they have taken in this series. The good guys somehow went bad.

Wayfriend wrote:

Edelaith wrote:The Haruchai have decided that ALL use of Earthpower is evil. Period. Forever.

No! They have decided that ALL use of Earthpower serves Corruption. A subtle, but important and non-trivial distinction.

They don't consider Earthpower evil, nor anyone who weilds it. But they believe that Earthpower lures people into a precarious position, one which Lord Foul can capitalize on, and which in fact he relies on in order to achieve his ends.

By denying the use of Earthpower, Lord Foul will have no means of prosecuting Corruption, and no reason to go after the people of the Land.

Again, the devil advocates: isn't this all true?

While it's true that, on all that evidence, use of Earthpower does people to a position where they're vulnerable to Corruption, I think the Haruchai's major misjudgement in terms of thwarting Foul (let's set aside for a moment the immorality of the Masters' oppression) in this case is their apparent assumption that Earthpower is the only way people become vulnerable to Corruption. This is manifestly untrue. Foul is endlessly resourceful, and the precarious positions of power he has been able to manipulate in the past are just one weapon in his colossal arsenal.

I think they might well consider Morin and Tuvor failures.

In fact, we know that they consider Morin a failure. From TWL:

Covenant ignored Sunder; he locked himself to Brinn's flat eyes. Softly, dangerously, he breathed, "Don't do this."
Brinn shrugged. "I have sworn to preserve your life."
"Bannor took the same Vow." Covenant did not struggle. But he glared straight at the Haruchai. People have died because of me. How much more do you think I can stand? "That's how Elena got killed. I might have been able to save her."
"Bannor maintained his Vow," Brinn said, as if it cost him no effort to refute Coveannt. "So the old tellers say, and their tale has descended from Bannor himself. It was First Mark Morin, sworn to the High Lord, who failed."

Interesting that they see Morin as a failure, as he actually succeeded in pushing Elena out of the way before Kevin could crush her. But I guess it's not all that surprising, given what we know about them.