Kevin's Watch

Suppose that TCTC has a real chance to become a movie, but only if they drop the concept of a ring, because it is too similar to LOTR. Thomas Covenant would still have a white gold talisman which is central to his identity - but it is not a ring. All else remains the same.

The good news is that this sacrifice means they line up great talent (Christian Bale, Bruce Campbell, etc.), get a half-billion for a budget, and have every chance of making the greatest epic theatre since Lawrence of Arabia. Every scene is just as the book, except for the ring. No comic relief, no gratuitous sex, no annoying voiceovers. Just epic action sequences, heart-wrenching character development, beatiful sets, lifelike CGI, and an adult-oriented script.

What could be used instead of a ring?

Is it adaptation or blasphemy?

How central to the story is it that the white gold be articulated by a wedding band?

Could you still watch this movie without feeling beFouled?

Discuss!

Well, it'd still have to be something that can be "wielded." Something that could be worn, that wouldn't go missing when TC's clothes changed.

The white gold cufflink?
The white gold torque?
The white gold tongue stud?

I think if it meant that everything else was perfect, and as long as the whitegold whatever could still somehow be a symbol of his marriage with Joan, then I could give it up. But everything else would have to be perfect.

well...
"You are the white gold"

The idea that the white-gold ring is a symbol of Covenant’s marriage is pivotal to the story. It wouldn’t make sense for Covenant to wield anything else. Also the white-gold ring reflects a lot of Donaldson’s own psyche, he had/has a lot of emotions relating to his marriages and it is reflected in his writing. Covenant’s separation from Joan is a fundamental part of all the books. I don’t know maybe he could have a white-gold locket, but wouldn’t it be kind of weird for a guy to wear a locket? Anyway, I met Donaldson a few months back and he was wearing a white-gold ring (well it was not completely white-gold), so the “white-gold wedding band” (since they don’t like to use the word ring) must be of sentimental or other symbolic importance to Donaldson and I think it would be wrong for it to be omitted from the films.

Agreed. The ring must be there, just like TC has to be a leper and has to rape Lena. All are integral to the story.

dlbpharmd wrote:Agreed. The ring must be there, just like TC has to be a leper and has to rape Lena. All are integral to the story.

OK, but why must the ring be a ring?

Ariadoss wrote:The idea that the white-gold ring is a symbol of Covenant’s marriage is pivotal to the story.

I disagree on the description 'pivotal'. Leprosy is pivotal. Rape is pivotal. A divorced wife and a son taken away are pivotal.

However, for example, the fact that Covenant is an author is not as important. Important, but not as important. On the scale of things, many things are more so. The story could be doable - not perfect, but doable - if Covenant were a sculptor, say.

I admit to a loss of what else the white gold could be -- but that's why I started the thread. However, I am not conviced that Covenant's ring being a ring, and not anything else, is 'pivotal'. Important, yes, but not as important as many other things.

Hmmm... the 'White Gold Charm-bracelet'.

Naaah... it just doesn't have the same 'ring'.

Nice pun. The white gold ring is a recurring element in all the novels, they just would not be the same without it. I bet someone could write a dissertation on the importance/significance of the white gold ring in the Covenant books. I guess you could use another material object that is symbolic for marriage or love but what would it be?

Jewellery can be symbolic, as in the case of Christians wearing a crucifix, or, as is the case in many Western cultures, married people wearing a wedding ring. Such a ring symbolises marriage: a spouse wears it to indicate a marital commitment to fidelity.
Before medical science discovered how the circulatory system functioned, people believed that a vein of blood ran directly from the fourth finger on the left hand to the heart. Because of the hand-heart connection, people named the putative vein descriptively vena amori, Latin for "the vein of love". Due to this tradition, it became accepted to wear the wedding ring on this finger. By wearing rings on the fourth finger of their left hands, a married couple symbolically declares their eternal love for each other. Covenant’s ring finger was severed, which I believe is symbolic for his connection to Joan and his ability to love or have compassion, haven’t you noticed the emphasis on his inability to feel?


Interesting fact about white gold (this may not be relevant):
Some people (about 12.5%) are sensitive or allergic to white gold. This occurs because of reaction to nickel found in some alloys of white gold. Reactions are mild and only involve rashes on the skin.

The best way to avoid the idiots from thinking The Chronicles are a rip-off of Lord of the Rings, is to blatently come forth with a Lord of the Rings refference.

Some point, maybe after the Wraiths of Andelain episode, Coveneant could think to himself, "I always thought this ring was powerfull, espesially after I read Lord of the Rings."

"What's Lord of the Rings?" asks Atiaran

"Nevermind, you wouldn't understand" answers Covenant "Don't touch me!"

drew wrote:The best way to avoid the idiots from thinking The Chronicles are a rip-off of Lord of the Rings, is to blatently come forth with a Lord of the Rings refference.

Hile Troy: Somebody has got to gain them time.
Verement: Then I will do it! I will hold Doom's Retreat. It is a fit place for me.

Thomin: A diversion!

Wayfriend wrote:

dlbpharmd wrote:Agreed. The ring must be there, just like TC has to be a leper and has to rape Lena. All are integral to the story.

OK, but why must the ring be a ring?

Ariadoss wrote:The idea that the white-gold ring is a symbol of Covenant’s marriage is pivotal to the story.

I disagree on the description 'pivotal'. Leprosy is pivotal. Rape is pivotal. A divorced wife and a son taken away are pivotal.

However, for example, the fact that Covenant is an author is not as important. Important, but not as important. On the scale of things, many things are more so. The story could be doable - not perfect, but doable - if Covenant were a sculptor, say.

Which has nothing to do with the question of the ring. It's not just writers who wear rings, you know.

It's a wedding ring. Rings are what Americans wear to signify that they're married. In this culture, there is really no substitute for a wedding ring that most people would be able to recognize. So if Covenant's divorce is pivotal, the ring is, too.

I've seen weddings where the couple exchange naval piercings... it was still a 'ring' though

I agree with VF - the whole point of the ring is that it's a symbol of the marriage covenant.

And in Western (not just North-American!) culture, it is the one widely accepted symbol of that covenant - piercings notwithstanding.

I started this thread, so perhaps I should reply to all the replies.

Of course, only a ring could be a symbol of a marriage. But that's not what I am asking .... what I am asking is, does the source of wild magic need to be a symbol of a marriage? Might we tell the story without using any symbol at all? Or might it be a completely different kind of symbol?

And of course it changes the story. The question is, does it change the story so much that it doesn't work any more as a movie?

Suppose the Producers/directors/writers decided to avoid the ring for the LOTR-comparisons. So instead TC has a white gold locket with a picture of his son, whom he can never see again. Does that work for a movie?

To replace the ring with a different item is to cast off the Last Chronicles as a possibility for movie material. Remove the marriage reference and Linden receiving Covenant's ring also has less meaning.
Yes, you could keep in the stuff about his divorce, and make the first chrons work without it, but it would make other parts of the series more difficult to adapt if you change the item.

And anyway, I don't think Covenant would want to hide a giant badger under his shirt.

And anyway, I don't think Covenant would want to hide a giant badger under his shirt

You should try it it is not as bad as you would expect.

Warmark wrote:

And anyway, I don't think Covenant would want to hide a giant badger under his shirt

You should try it it is not as bad as you would expect.

i tried it, but i thought you said "hedgehog"

... thanks alot

yore welcome, just read more closely next time to avoid any unneeded accidents.

I guess the truth is, substituting something else for the ring might make a workable movie - but it wouldn't be true to the meaning and symbology of the Chronicles.

And you should know that Watchers are purists, on a level that makes even die-hard, anti-Jackson, Tolkien fans scared.

Most of us would rather have no movie at all, than a movie adulterating the books to appeal to the masses.