Kevin's Watch

I found this online today(I don't know if it's accurate or not) and it got me thinking.....
How many Apostles were there anyway?
11?
12?
Was Judas the 13th Apostle? (13 has been the unlucky number long before Jesus)

I have no idea!
I do remember there being some contradictions in the New Testament on this.
There seems to be some very well read Watch members here.
Can anybody tell me how many there were?

*******************************
*Jesus was crucified on the cross. But what about the apostles? What
happened to them? What manner of death awaited them? *
*Judas Iscariot committed suicide because of the guilt he felt after
betraying Jesus. *
*The others were killed for their beliefs and for spreading the Word of
God. Here is what happened: *
*Matthew was pierced by a sword in Ethiopia. *
*Mark lost his life at the hands of a mob in Alexandria. *
*Luke was hanged on an olive tree in Greece. *
*John was banished to the Isle of Patmos. *
*Thomas was pierced by a lance. *
*James the greater was decapitated in Jerusalem. *
*James the lesser was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple and then
clubbed to death. *
*Bartholemew was flayed alive. *
*Peter was crucified in Rome with his head downward. *
*Andrew also suffered crucifixion. *
*Jude was shot with an arrow. *
************************************

i may be wrong but i thought there was 10 disciples
then the Apsotles are mathew, mark, luke and john

i probably am wrong

The 12 disciples were Bartholomew, Andrew, John, Phillip, Thomas, Matthew, James, James, Simon, Simon Peter, Judas and Judas Iscariot. After Judas' death the remaining 11 chose Matthias to replace him (the selection method used was casting of lots.) I'm not sure whatever happened to Matthias, AFAIK he's not mentioned again (this can be found in Acts chapter 1, IIRC.) In reality, Paul (the former Saul of Tarsus) was the man whom God had selected to replace Judas.

So, to the best of my knowledge, these are the 12 Apostles. Mark and Luke were never considered Apostles.

One of the other gospels lists Thaddeus instead of the other Judas, so it's not entirely clear.

AHH....gospels thats who i was thnking of not Apostles.

nuk wrote:One of the other gospels lists Thaddeus instead of the other Judas, so it's not entirely clear.

Known nowadays as St Jude... his full given name was Judas Thaddeus (son of Cleophas). Popularly believed to have been first cousin to Jesus (a nephew of Mary and Joseph) and to have borne a striking physical resemblance to our Lord.

Wasn't Stephen an apostle too? He wasn't an original one, but I thought he was one.

Actually, Stephen was a Deacon.

So who was with Jesus at the Last Supper?
Weren't they the Disciples?

What's the difference between Disciples and Apostles?

I had always thought the apostles were Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, who wrote the gospels, but I'm probably mistaken, knowing so little about the subject as I do.

Murrin,

Those are the Evangelists. None of them were alive during the events described in their Gospels.

The Gospel of Mark is attributed to John-Mark, who is actually mentioned in the New Testament. He wrote his Gospel around 70 AD.

Matthew was written around 70 AD.

Luke is attributed to a Greek physician; his Gospel was written around 100 AD.

The Gospel of John, OTOH, was written by members of the Johanine community, founded by the Favored Apostle John, circa 110 AD.

It is very important to remember that none of the Gospels were written by eye-witnesses.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:So who was with Jesus at the Last Supper?

Mary Magdalene, of course.

Wayfriend,

Out of curiousity, could you happen to explain to me the reasoning behind that theory? What extrabiblical sources indicate this?

Lord Mhoram wrote:Murrin,

Those are the Evangelists. None of them were alive during the events described in their Gospels.

The Gospel of Mark is attributed to John-Mark, who is actually mentioned in the New Testament. He wrote his Gospel around 70 AD.

Matthew was written around 70 AD.

Luke is attributed to a Greek physician; his Gospel was written around 100 AD.

The Gospel of John, OTOH, was written by members of the Johanine community, founded by the Favored Apostle John, circa 100 AD.

It is very important to remember that none of the Gospels were written by eye-witnesses.

You know what?
I never knew that.
I always assumed that they were first hand accounts from 4 of the Apostles that were with Jesus.

Tolkien,

Neither did I, actually, until recently. It's a pretty common misconception.

Lord Mhoram wrote:Murrin,

Those are the Evangelists. None of them were alive during the events described in their Gospels.

The Gospel of Mark is attributed to John-Mark, who is actually mentioned in the New Testament. He wrote his Gospel around 70 AD.

Matthew was written around 70 AD.

Luke is attributed to a Greek physician; his Gospel was written around 100 AD.

The Gospel of John, OTOH, was written by members of the Johanine community, founded by the Favored Apostle John, circa 110 AD.

It is very important to remember that none of the Gospels were written by eye-witnesses.

Oh, I knew about that (seem to remember it being mentioned a few years back in some RE class at school, about them being written up to 150 years later, about Luke being a Greek physician, etc); it was just the usual confusion about use of the word Apostles. Never really had any kind of extensive knowledge on the subject, but had believed the disciples and the apostles to be different people.

A disciple is anyone who follows a leader, so there are plenty of disciples in the Bible and today (Jesus said go out and make disciples). An apostle is one who actually lived during and saw Jesus. So really there were more than 12 Apostles, but we when say the 12, we mean the 12 Jesus picked out to be like an inner circle. BTW, Judas was not the 13th, there was no 13th. Unless you count Rufus

All the gospels were written b4 70AD. Matthew and John were eye witnesses, Mark probably, and very close to Peter, and Luke was very close to Paul, and possibly Mark too.

Cybrweez wrote:All the gospels were written b4 70AD. Matthew and John were eye witnesses, Mark probably, and very close to Peter, and Luke was very close to Paul, and possibly Mark too.

Sources?

Plissken wrote:

Cybrweez wrote:All the gospels were written b4 70AD. Matthew and John were eye witnesses, Mark probably, and very close to Peter, and Luke was very close to Paul, and possibly Mark too.

Sources?

I was waiting for that question, but I wonder, will you ask Lord Mhoram for his sources? You can find plenty of stuff online, here's a start (altho I haven't read it all, its looks good):

www.tektonics.org/ntdocdef/gospdefhub.html

I read Josh McDowell's "New Evidence Demans a Verdict" awhile ago, but I believe there was info about when most books in bible were written.